FINE SWORD, INDONESIA OR MALAYSIAN ?

Ron Anderson · 2nd October 2010, 02:48 AM

Thanks for that informed outline, Alan.

I do not claim to believe this is from Lombok, but was just commenting on the possibility, from my limited experience, and trying to establish the truth through dialogue. I am aware horn is used throughout Indonesia, so of course this does not indicate it is from Lombok per se. It is as you say, probably from Sumatra, for reasons you've outlined.

On a bit of a side point, Lombok may be a deprived backwater, nonetheless I have seen many items with a great deal of craftsmanship attributed to Lombok Island. However, not so much in the area of blade manufacture, as the blades seem relatively ordinary, but certainly in terms of the carving that comes from there, which is very distinctive, and rather different from most of the other islands, perhaps precisely because of the diversity of influences that you've mentioned.

In a sense you are right - Lombok is a bit of a backwater. Culturally, it is quite atavistic. The themes in their art are primitive, with a lot of animist influence. So it being a backwater is precisely why it is of interest. Their artefacts, other than these klewangs, also have their own particular flavour and feeling, which appeals to me anyway.

I will open a thread posting my Lombok horn hilts soon, for those who may be interested.

VANDOO · 2nd October 2010, 03:23 AM

I HAD OCASION TO VISIT THE SITE AGAIN AND WILL ADD THE TWO OTHER PICTURES. IT WAS LISTED AS INDONESIAN, BEHEADING SWORD, WOOD SCABBARD WITH HORN THROAT AND TIP, METEOR IRON BLADE AND WOOD HILT. THE PRICE WAS WELL BEYOND WHAT I WOULD PAY. I SUSPECT YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE HANDLE BEING HORN AS SEVERAL OF THEIR COMMENTS IN THE LISTING WERE OFF.

Battara · 2nd October 2010, 03:51 AM

What site?

Gavin Nugent · 2nd October 2010, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

I HAD OCASION TO VISIT THE SITE AGAIN AND WILL ADD THE TWO OTHER PICTURES. IT WAS LISTED AS INDONESIAN, BEHEADING SWORD, WOOD SCABBARD WITH HORN THROAT AND TIP, METEOR IRON BLADE AND WOOD HILT. THE PRICE WAS WELL BEYOND WHAT I WOULD PAY. I SUSPECT YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE HANDLE BEING HORN AS SEVERAL OF THEIR COMMENTS IN THE LISTING WERE OFF.

That Pamor and tip shape reminds me of the Dua Lanan I have here. These swords from Sulawesi also have simple horn fittings to the ends however this example above shows the throat shape of West Java and Sumatran, Zonneveld figures 557 & 558 for Java and 274, 397 for Sumatra which represents this example best in blade profile and scabbard in my opinion.

Gav

Marcokeris · 3rd October 2010, 06:08 PM

AWESOME

IMO: Sumatra or Jawa

Mytribalworld · 10th November 2010, 09:04 AM

just to note a curious fact about these gold/suasa handled swords.

normally these are quite scarce but I have spotted 4 of this kind in a few weeks

however well made it makes me a little concerned.

best regards and take care,

Arjan

BigG · 22nd November 2010, 06:48 PM

I have yet to see any Peninsula Malay weapons with this very distinctive form of hilt design. Especially the foliage ukiran on the hilt. After thinking it through i would say that i could see a shadow of a semblance of a makara form form in the general outline of the weapon's hilt. But that outline is only a semblance of what a makara outline would look like.

As for the blade itself, i would have to agree that it is more akin to what would be found in Sumatera and perhaps lombok. But not likely in the peninsula. The form of the blade, especially the markings and the pamor combination is just something that i have yet to see there.

There is just something rather odd about the combination of the blade, the markings on it and the hilt form and decoration on this weapon.

Battara · 11th April 2011, 03:53 AM

Was just reading in Van Zonneveld's Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Arhchepalego , and I came across this type of sword which he called a Sumatran pedang (type III), page 102. He also stated that this type of sword often has a bare wooden scabbard, even when the hilt has silver on it (has a picture of it too).

Interesting stuff.

2nd October 2010, 03:23 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAD OCASION TO VISIT THE SITE AGAIN AND WILL ADD THE TWO OTHER PICTURES. IT WAS LISTED AS INDONESIAN, BEHEADING SWORD, WOOD SCABBARD WITH HORN THROAT AND TIP, METEOR IRON BLADE AND WOOD HILT. THE PRICE WAS WELL BEYOND WHAT I WOULD PAY. I SUSPECT YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE HANDLE BEING HORN AS SEVERAL OF THEIR COMMENTS IN THE LISTING WERE OFF. Attached Images

10th November 2010, 09:04 AM	#6
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	?????? just to note a curious fact about these gold/suasa handled swords. normally these are quite scarce but I have spotted 4 of this kind in a few weeks however well made it makes me a little concerned. best regards and take care, Arjan

2nd October 2010, 02:48 AM	#1
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Thanks for that informed outline, Alan. I do not claim to believe this is from Lombok, but was just commenting on the possibility, from my limited experience, and trying to establish the truth through dialogue. I am aware horn is used throughout Indonesia, so of course this does not indicate it is from Lombok per se. It is as you say, probably from Sumatra, for reasons you've outlined. On a bit of a side point, Lombok may be a deprived backwater, nonetheless I have seen many items with a great deal of craftsmanship attributed to Lombok Island. However, not so much in the area of blade manufacture, as the blades seem relatively ordinary, but certainly in terms of the carving that comes from there, which is very distinctive, and rather different from most of the other islands, perhaps precisely because of the diversity of influences that you've mentioned. In a sense you are right - Lombok is a bit of a backwater. Culturally, it is quite atavistic. The themes in their art are primitive, with a lot of animist influence. So it being a backwater is precisely why it is of interest. Their artefacts, other than these klewangs, also have their own particular flavour and feeling, which appeals to me anyway. I will open a thread posting my Lombok horn hilts soon, for those who may be interested.

2nd October 2010, 03:51 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	What site?

3rd October 2010, 06:08 PM	#5
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	AWESOME IMO: Sumatra or Jawa

22nd November 2010, 06:48 PM	#7
BigG Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Singapore Posts: 75	I have yet to see any Peninsula Malay weapons with this very distinctive form of hilt design. Especially the foliage ukiran on the hilt. After thinking it through i would say that i could see a shadow of a semblance of a makara form form in the general outline of the weapon's hilt. But that outline is only a semblance of what a makara outline would look like. As for the blade itself, i would have to agree that it is more akin to what would be found in Sumatera and perhaps lombok. But not likely in the peninsula. The form of the blade, especially the markings and the pamor combination is just something that i have yet to see there. There is just something rather odd about the combination of the blade, the markings on it and the hilt form and decoration on this weapon.

11th April 2011, 03:53 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	Was just reading in Van Zonneveld's Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Arhchepalego , and I came across this type of sword which he called a Sumatran pedang (type III), page 102. He also stated that this type of sword often has a bare wooden scabbard, even when the hilt has silver on it (has a picture of it too). Interesting stuff.