Moro Spear

David · 27th September 2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

This is an amazing spear, surely the largest and longest I have seen and a fantastic find - and so wonderfully complete!

I will be interested to learn if the inscription can be deciphered. Hopefully there is some useful information there, but I had the thought - without the expertise to back it up - that these engravings might possibly also be 'nonsense' Arabic such as was sometimes seen in European Renaissance arms.

Well i think that there is a good chance that these markings are talismanic and magickal in intention. It may not be Arabic letters at all. If it is it certainly would be in the Arabic language. If it appears nonsensical to us it won't be because it is nonsense.

Battara · 27th September 2010, 11:46 PM

Yeah, I kind of agree. Seen a lot of talismanic "Arabic" from Indonesia and Philippines. This does not look like true Arabic IMHO, but I may be wrong (my Arabic is nearly non-existent).

Bill M · 30th September 2010, 06:10 AM

One of my Moro spears
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=Moro+Spear

and a Mandaya
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=mandaya

Gavin Nugent · 20th October 2010, 09:22 AM

The spear arrived today and it is a beautiful piece in the hand and can certainly be applied in the martial manner of Chinese spears even if the head maybe considered a little heavy.
The twist core section is hollow ground/forged and there is a very subtle medial ridge within this section so can it be considered a Budiak???

Images and further detail in a few weeks.

Nice spears Bill.

Gav

Battara · 20th October 2010, 04:22 PM

Not quite Gav. It needs the deep chiseling and the right profile to be a budiak.

Gavin Nugent · 6th November 2010, 02:28 AM

Here are some of the finer details of the twistcore head. I found a little time this morning to give it the once over and a quick etch.

Can the script be read? Or is it just gobbledygook?

Gav

Battara · 6th November 2010, 03:01 AM

Very nice pattern!

Now all we need is someone who can either read Arabic and/or Jawi.........

Reichsritter · 17th November 2010, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

The spear arrived today and it is a beautiful piece in the hand and can certainly be applied in the martial manner of Chinese spears even if the head maybe considered a little heavy.
The twist core section is hollow ground/forged and there is a very subtle medial ridge within this section so can it be considered a Budiak???

Images and further detail in a few weeks.

Nice spears Bill.

Gav

Hi Gav-

The local dialect (Tausug) for spear in Sulu is Budjak

Spunjer · 17th November 2010, 03:25 AM

Lol, i had a feeling you'd pop out here sooner or later, reichsritter... how are ya?

Reichsritter · 17th November 2010, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

Lol, i had a feeling you'd pop out here sooner or later, reichsritter... how are ya?

Maayo man ko migo

I was drawn in some interesting topic in the European Armory for a while (ato ko didto hehe)....just noticed this nice Budjak with interesting Jawi inscription. Will try to look at these people in the Tarsila

Gavin Nugent · 17th November 2010, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reichsritter

Hi Gav-

The local dialect (Tausug) for spear in Sulu is Budjak

Hi Reichsritter,

Thank you for further insight and I am glad you are well.

Seeking further clarity on the subject of filipino spears;
Budjak = Budiak = spear and there is no naming difference between a chiseled example such as Lee's or Maurice's found in the links at the start and this one presented?
I hope you weaken enough to share anything else you can about the Budjak and the inscription.

regards

Gavin

Gavin Nugent · 17th November 2010, 05:50 AM

Here is a notion, fanciful too..let me have my dreams for a moment

With the translation that has been offered, could the word Jamil actually be Amil as in Datu Amil from the Sulu regions noted in Fultons work?
Finding such note worthy script on a spear or any Moro weapon for that matter must have a great importance and Amil was of the new school of thought were others were considered old school, perhaps a change that was note worthy enough to show on a spear and the spear being the king of weapons....let the dream stay for a minute before you all come firing in...

Gav

Reichsritter · 17th November 2010, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi Reichsritter,

Thank you for further insight and I am glad you are well.

Seeking further clarity on the subject of filipino spears;
Budjak = Budiak = spear and there is no naming difference between a chiseled example such as Lee's or Maurice's found in the links at the start and this one presented?
I hope you weaken enough to share anything else you can about the Budjak and the inscription.

regards

Gavin

Hi Gav-

No distinction, all spear for a Tausug is called Budjak. What I am intrigue here if who is Datu Jamil and Hashim in Sulu Genealogy. Im crossing my fingers that I can pinpoint who they are and what generation they lived.

By the way, it appears to me that Datu Hashim is an heir of Datu Jamil. The title was passed and maybe perhaps a responsiblity.

"Jamil" (meaning handsome) I think was more common name rather that Amil

20th October 2010, 09:22 AM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Nice The spear arrived today and it is a beautiful piece in the hand and can certainly be applied in the martial manner of Chinese spears even if the head maybe considered a little heavy. The twist core section is hollow ground/forged and there is a very subtle medial ridge within this section so can it be considered a Budiak??? Images and further detail in a few weeks. Nice spears Bill. Gav

6th November 2010, 02:28 AM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	a quick clean and an etch Here are some of the finer details of the twistcore head. I found a little time this morning to give it the once over and a quick etch. Can the script be read? Or is it just gobbledygook? Gav Attached Images

17th November 2010, 05:50 AM	#12
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	here's a notion Here is a notion, fanciful too..let me have my dreams for a moment With the translation that has been offered, could the word Jamil actually be Amil as in Datu Amil from the Sulu regions noted in Fultons work? Finding such note worthy script on a spear or any Moro weapon for that matter must have a great importance and Amil was of the new school of thought were others were considered old school, perhaps a change that was note worthy enough to show on a spear and the spear being the king of weapons....let the dream stay for a minute before you all come firing in... Gav

27th September 2010, 11:46 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Yeah, I kind of agree. Seen a lot of talismanic "Arabic" from Indonesia and Philippines. This does not look like true Arabic IMHO, but I may be wrong (my Arabic is nearly non-existent).

30th September 2010, 06:10 AM	#3
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	One of my Moro spears http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=Moro+Spear and a Mandaya http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=mandaya

20th October 2010, 04:22 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Not quite Gav. It needs the deep chiseling and the right profile to be a budiak.

6th November 2010, 03:01 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Very nice pattern! Now all we need is someone who can either read Arabic and/or Jawi.........

17th November 2010, 03:25 AM	#9
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Lol, i had a feeling you'd pop out here sooner or later, reichsritter... how are ya?