New to the forum, Hello, Pictures of swords WARNING LARGE PICS

Rick · 24th September 2010, 11:55 PM

Hi Henk,

Do you have any photos of the Natives wearing or using one of these ?

I've got a little doubt about this Mandau .

asomotif · 25th September 2010, 01:58 AM

Welcome to the forum,

thanks for bringing up an old discussion.
This type of mandau imho (in my humble opinion) is made for tourists.
As Rick rightfully asks, dow e have pictures of natives wearing them ?
I heard that they are worn in the 70/80's series Sandokan. So much for provenance.

Use the search function on this website an check out some mandau threads.
You wil see the difference between this one and the real deal.

I like the fittings on the wakizashi, a pity that someone sanded the blade.
I no nothing about japanese stuff, but sanding the blade seems fatal for the value to me. There are specialist forums on nihonto / japanese swords.

Best regards,
Willem

VANDOO · 25th September 2010, 02:27 AM

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

I WILL LEAVE COMMENTS ON THE JAPANESE SWORD TO THOSE MORE KNOWLEGABLE AND THE MANDAU HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED. I AM IMPRESSED BY THE CARVING ON THE SMALL TABLE TOP VERY NICE GRAPES AND VINES, WHERE IS IT FROM?

scotchleaf · 25th September 2010, 03:25 AM

Yes, the wakizashi must be polished - I fear the cost would be more than it is worth. A dealer in such swords at the 2007 Blade Show said it was 17th century. My aunt got it in the 40's in Japan from her "houseboy." All I can say is that, happily, I wasn't the one to damage it.

Does anyone know if the mandau has any steel or is it Iron?

The table, I think, is German.

VANDOO · 25th September 2010, 09:08 PM

IF THE CLOSUP OF THE MANDAU IS OF THE BLADE IT WOULD APPEAR TO BE A PEACE OF MONO STEEL THAT HAD BEEN SOAKED IN ACID TO APPEAR OLD. A MORE COMPLETE PICTURE OF THE BLADE WOULD REVEAL MORE. THE DAYAK AND OTHERS MAKE GOOD BLADES FOR THOSE THEY ACTUALLY USE . FOR TOURIST SOUVINEERS THEY OFTEN USE ANY OLD PIECE OF METAL AND SOMETIMES THEY DON'T EVEN QUALIFY AS A USABLE BLADE OR HAVE A PROPER EDGE. I HAVE SEEN VERY WELL MADE BLADES AS WELL AS PIECES OF SCRAP METAL SUBJECTED TO THIS DESTRUCTIVE ACID BATH AND HEARD THE STORIES OF HOW OLD IT IS OR THAT IT WAS USED IN CEREMONIAL FUNCTIONS OR THAT THE SHAMAN USED THE RESULTING BLACK RUST FOR MEDICINE.

I DON'T SEE WHY THEY BOTHER AS IT DETRACTS MORE FROM THE OBJECT THAN IT ADDS AND MAKES IT MUCH LESS ATTRACTIVE.

Henk · 26th September 2010, 07:57 AM

Rick,

No i don't have pictures of natives wearing these weapons.

The keris from New Guinea are mostly, just like the mandau and spears, tourist stuff. They have that shiny paint on the plain wood.
But it is said that the real keris from New Guinea have the same look as the tourist stuff but the paint is made from organic material with the woven "pendok" that are on these keris are the old and original ones. Sometimes such a keris pops up in an auction house here in Holland. I own one with museum numbers on it. Some very expierenced collectors told me this is the real thing, just like their own example.
Looking at the paint of this mandau it has the same look of paint made from organic material.
It is known that the papua tribes used mandau's and machetes. The blades were aquired by forging by their own blacksmiths and by trading. the weapons were decorated with natural (organic) paint in traditional motifs.

Please, don't ask me for books and titles, because i cann't remember it.

And of course, I realize that there is unfortunately a lot of recent made tourist stuff.

scotchleaf · 26th September 2010, 03:12 PM

I know these were acquired by the 1970's (when I remember seeing them in my Grandfather's home) but probably in the 50s or 60's

Years ago I put some candle wax on the blade in a misguided attempt to avoid rust.

So, by reading above, I take it that there is a disagreement between posters as to the status of this Mandu - whether it is a tourist item or actually intended for use.

In support of the "tourist item" idea, there does not appear to be much or any wear on the handle like you would think of a well-used sword - but how often did they practice with these?

Rick · 26th September 2010, 03:49 PM

No problems with citation Henk .

I take your word on this matter .

I would also like to view the complete blade .

24th September 2010, 11:55 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Hi Henk, Do you have any photos of the Natives wearing or using one of these ? I've got a little doubt about this Mandau .

25th September 2010, 01:58 AM	#2
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,228	Welcome to the forum, thanks for bringing up an old discussion. This type of mandau imho (in my humble opinion) is made for tourists. As Rick rightfully asks, dow e have pictures of natives wearing them ? I heard that they are worn in the 70/80's series Sandokan. So much for provenance. Use the search function on this website an check out some mandau threads. You wil see the difference between this one and the real deal. I like the fittings on the wakizashi, a pity that someone sanded the blade. I no nothing about japanese stuff, but sanding the blade seems fatal for the value to me. There are specialist forums on nihonto / japanese swords. Best regards, Willem

25th September 2010, 02:27 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	WELCOME TO THE FORUM I WILL LEAVE COMMENTS ON THE JAPANESE SWORD TO THOSE MORE KNOWLEGABLE AND THE MANDAU HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED. I AM IMPRESSED BY THE CARVING ON THE SMALL TABLE TOP VERY NICE GRAPES AND VINES, WHERE IS IT FROM?

25th September 2010, 03:25 AM	#4
scotchleaf Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 21	Yes, the wakizashi must be polished - I fear the cost would be more than it is worth. A dealer in such swords at the 2007 Blade Show said it was 17th century. My aunt got it in the 40's in Japan from her "houseboy." All I can say is that, happily, I wasn't the one to damage it. Does anyone know if the mandau has any steel or is it Iron? The table, I think, is German.

25th September 2010, 09:08 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IF THE CLOSUP OF THE MANDAU IS OF THE BLADE IT WOULD APPEAR TO BE A PEACE OF MONO STEEL THAT HAD BEEN SOAKED IN ACID TO APPEAR OLD. A MORE COMPLETE PICTURE OF THE BLADE WOULD REVEAL MORE. THE DAYAK AND OTHERS MAKE GOOD BLADES FOR THOSE THEY ACTUALLY USE . FOR TOURIST SOUVINEERS THEY OFTEN USE ANY OLD PIECE OF METAL AND SOMETIMES THEY DON'T EVEN QUALIFY AS A USABLE BLADE OR HAVE A PROPER EDGE. I HAVE SEEN VERY WELL MADE BLADES AS WELL AS PIECES OF SCRAP METAL SUBJECTED TO THIS DESTRUCTIVE ACID BATH AND HEARD THE STORIES OF HOW OLD IT IS OR THAT IT WAS USED IN CEREMONIAL FUNCTIONS OR THAT THE SHAMAN USED THE RESULTING BLACK RUST FOR MEDICINE. I DON'T SEE WHY THEY BOTHER AS IT DETRACTS MORE FROM THE OBJECT THAN IT ADDS AND MAKES IT MUCH LESS ATTRACTIVE.

26th September 2010, 07:57 AM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Rick, No i don't have pictures of natives wearing these weapons. The keris from New Guinea are mostly, just like the mandau and spears, tourist stuff. They have that shiny paint on the plain wood. But it is said that the real keris from New Guinea have the same look as the tourist stuff but the paint is made from organic material with the woven "pendok" that are on these keris are the old and original ones. Sometimes such a keris pops up in an auction house here in Holland. I own one with museum numbers on it. Some very expierenced collectors told me this is the real thing, just like their own example. Looking at the paint of this mandau it has the same look of paint made from organic material. It is known that the papua tribes used mandau's and machetes. The blades were aquired by forging by their own blacksmiths and by trading. the weapons were decorated with natural (organic) paint in traditional motifs. Please, don't ask me for books and titles, because i cann't remember it. And of course, I realize that there is unfortunately a lot of recent made tourist stuff.

26th September 2010, 03:12 PM	#7
scotchleaf Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 21	I know these were acquired by the 1970's (when I remember seeing them in my Grandfather's home) but probably in the 50s or 60's Years ago I put some candle wax on the blade in a misguided attempt to avoid rust. So, by reading above, I take it that there is a disagreement between posters as to the status of this Mandu - whether it is a tourist item or actually intended for use. In support of the "tourist item" idea, there does not appear to be much or any wear on the handle like you would think of a well-used sword - but how often did they practice with these?

26th September 2010, 03:49 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	No problems with citation Henk . I take your word on this matter . I would also like to view the complete blade .