Solomon, Hawaiian or????

fearn · 23rd September 2010, 03:20 PM

Tests for lime? Pure chalk will rub off, of course. But both chalk and lime are probably calcium carbonate, so they will test the same. The fundamental test for calcium carbonate is a bit of acid: vinegar, draino (a much stronger acid), or something similar. Calcium carbonate will fizz as it dissolves.

I don't recommend testing your club this way, because it's not clear whether you'll learn anything worth knowing for the damage caused. Moreover, there's not much lime involved, so you'd have to watch carefully for any little bubbles.

The more interesting question is superposition: there appears to be use damage, and there's a design. Which came first? Was the design retouched after the damage? It's even possible for a decoration to be applied after damage, although I don't think that's the case here.

Basically, if a dent mars a decoration, the decoration came first. I'm curious if there are cases where there is damage over the decoration, and then fresher lime reapplied inside the design, but overlaying a dent.

Hope this helps,

F

VANDOO · 23rd September 2010, 04:22 PM

IF I REMEMBER CORECTLY LIME WAS MADE IN THE ISLANDS BY GRINDING CORAL INTO A DUST AND MAKEING A PASTE IT MAY HAVE BEEN BURNED FIRST

THE PASTE WAS APPLIED TO THE CLUB PUSHING IT INTO THE DESIGNS AND THEN THE EXCESS WIPED OFF AND THE CLUB ALLOWED TO DRY. OVER TIME LIME IS LIKELY TO FALL OUT IF PAINT WAS USED IT WOULD NOT CRUMBLE OR CRACK AND FALL OUT. MOST LIME IS MISSING ON YOUR EXAMPLE SO IT IS LIKELY THE TRADITIONAL LIME. PERHAPS A CLOSE LOOK VIA MAGNIFICATION WILL TELL MORE WITHOUT DOING DAMMAGE.

Gavin Nugent · 24th September 2010, 02:22 AM

Well, I was doing some image viewing on Google and look what I came across, not that it is club related but have a look at the Totems drawn in the top right side of the blog....similar features, teeth, tongues and features...some other direction to ponder???...I'd be interested in thoughts on these images even though they are drawn...the style must be drawn from somewhere in this region.....

Gav

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgu...:1&um=1&itbs=1

fearn · 24th September 2010, 02:50 AM

Well, I've attached a picture of a type of mask that I got from a vacationing relative, oh, 25 years ago. They still sell them in Hawaii, but I wouldn't call it traditional Hawaiian or even Polynesian. Tiki tradition? I don't know much about them.

This club could be in the same (ahem) "neo-traditional" vein.

Best,

F

Gavin Nugent · 24th September 2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Well, I've attached a picture of a type of mask that I got from a vacationing relative, oh, 25 years ago. They still sell them in Hawaii, but I wouldn't call it traditional Hawaiian or even Polynesian. Tiki tradition? I don't know much about them.

This club could be in the same (ahem) "neo-traditional" vein.

Best,

F

Fearn, vacationing relatives...did they souce the mask from the north coast of Java? I ask as this is where the link is from that I provided.
Does anyone have any knowledge of clubs or totems from the regions as I know I do not

There must be something valid to the regions for this to appear on the page...anyone???

Gav

fearn · 24th September 2010, 03:49 PM

Nope. Mask came from a workshop somewhere. The point with the mask is that, once a pattern gets put into a book, ANYONE who can buy that book can make something based on that pattern.

Just because a piece of art (or that mask) features details reminiscent of some part of the world, it doesn't follow that it came from there.

Your club reminds me of the mask, because they both have the fang-filled mouth, the asian nose, and the head-dress above it. While the mask is sold on Hawaii, I've never seen a native Hawaiian piece that looks like it.

I suspect that club came from something of the same tradition. Someone got inspired by some pictures somewhere and made it.

Best,

F

VANDOO · 25th September 2010, 02:44 AM

I THINK THESE MASKS ARE MADE IN THE PHILIPPINES AND SHIPPED TO HAWAII AND OTHER DESTINATIONS FOR SALE AS SOUVINEERS. TO MY KNOWLEGE THEY DON'T REPRESENT ANY TRUE ETHINOGRAPHIC MASK AND ARE PURELY TIKI PARAFANIALA. I HAVE SEEN THIS MASK WITH A DRAGON OR A LION ON THE FOREHEAD AND IN LARGE TO SMALL SIZES. I HAVE THREE DIFFERENT VARIATIONS ON MY WALLS.

YES I ALSO HAVE A TIKI COLLECTION AND LISTEN TO THE EXOTIC TIKI MUSIC.

24th September 2010, 02:22 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	have a look Well, I was doing some image viewing on Google and look what I came across, not that it is club related but have a look at the Totems drawn in the top right side of the blog....similar features, teeth, tongues and features...some other direction to ponder???...I'd be interested in thoughts on these images even though they are drawn...the style must be drawn from somewhere in this region..... Gav http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgu...:1&um=1&itbs=1 Last edited by freebooter; 24th September 2010 at 02:54 AM.

24th September 2010, 02:50 AM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Well, I've attached a picture of a type of mask that I got from a vacationing relative, oh, 25 years ago. They still sell them in Hawaii, but I wouldn't call it traditional Hawaiian or even Polynesian. Tiki tradition? I don't know much about them. This club could be in the same (ahem) "neo-traditional" vein. Best, F Attached Images

23rd September 2010, 03:20 PM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Tests for lime? Pure chalk will rub off, of course. But both chalk and lime are probably calcium carbonate, so they will test the same. The fundamental test for calcium carbonate is a bit of acid: vinegar, draino (a much stronger acid), or something similar. Calcium carbonate will fizz as it dissolves. I don't recommend testing your club this way, because it's not clear whether you'll learn anything worth knowing for the damage caused. Moreover, there's not much lime involved, so you'd have to watch carefully for any little bubbles. The more interesting question is superposition: there appears to be use damage, and there's a design. Which came first? Was the design retouched after the damage? It's even possible for a decoration to be applied after damage, although I don't think that's the case here. Basically, if a dent mars a decoration, the decoration came first. I'm curious if there are cases where there is damage over the decoration, and then fresher lime reapplied inside the design, but overlaying a dent. Hope this helps, F

23rd September 2010, 04:22 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IF I REMEMBER CORECTLY LIME WAS MADE IN THE ISLANDS BY GRINDING CORAL INTO A DUST AND MAKEING A PASTE IT MAY HAVE BEEN BURNED FIRST THE PASTE WAS APPLIED TO THE CLUB PUSHING IT INTO THE DESIGNS AND THEN THE EXCESS WIPED OFF AND THE CLUB ALLOWED TO DRY. OVER TIME LIME IS LIKELY TO FALL OUT IF PAINT WAS USED IT WOULD NOT CRUMBLE OR CRACK AND FALL OUT. MOST LIME IS MISSING ON YOUR EXAMPLE SO IT IS LIKELY THE TRADITIONAL LIME. PERHAPS A CLOSE LOOK VIA MAGNIFICATION WILL TELL MORE WITHOUT DOING DAMMAGE.

24th September 2010, 03:49 PM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Nope. Mask came from a workshop somewhere. The point with the mask is that, once a pattern gets put into a book, ANYONE who can buy that book can make something based on that pattern. Just because a piece of art (or that mask) features details reminiscent of some part of the world, it doesn't follow that it came from there. Your club reminds me of the mask, because they both have the fang-filled mouth, the asian nose, and the head-dress above it. While the mask is sold on Hawaii, I've never seen a native Hawaiian piece that looks like it. I suspect that club came from something of the same tradition. Someone got inspired by some pictures somewhere and made it. Best, F

25th September 2010, 02:44 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I THINK THESE MASKS ARE MADE IN THE PHILIPPINES AND SHIPPED TO HAWAII AND OTHER DESTINATIONS FOR SALE AS SOUVINEERS. TO MY KNOWLEGE THEY DON'T REPRESENT ANY TRUE ETHINOGRAPHIC MASK AND ARE PURELY TIKI PARAFANIALA. I HAVE SEEN THIS MASK WITH A DRAGON OR A LION ON THE FOREHEAD AND IN LARGE TO SMALL SIZES. I HAVE THREE DIFFERENT VARIATIONS ON MY WALLS. YES I ALSO HAVE A TIKI COLLECTION AND LISTEN TO THE EXOTIC TIKI MUSIC.