Solomon, Hawaiian or????

VANDOO · 22nd September 2010, 05:53 AM

I WOULD GUESS 1920'S THRU 1940'S. FOR THE B&W PLATE THERE WAS A LOT OF INTREST IN THE SOUTH SEA ISLANDS DURING THAT PERIOD. MANY STUDIES AND BOOKS BY ANTROPOLOGISTS FROM MANY COUNTRYS WERE DONE THEN AND QUITE A FEW EVEN EARLIER. MANY MUSEUMS PUT TOGETHER THEIR COLLECTIONS DURING THOSE EXPIDITIONS AND STUDYS. MANY ARTHORS ALSO TRAVELED AND WROTE ADVENTURE BOOKS DURING THAT ERA AS THE EXOTIC SOUTH PACIFIC WAS THE BIG ROMANTIC FANTASY IN THOSE TIMES.
NOT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE YOUR CLUB I CAN ONLY GUESS AS TO ITS AGE. IT WAS LIKELY MADE BEFORE WW2 ,BUT MAY HAVE BEEN BROUGHT BACK DURING OR AFTER THAT TIME. REASONS FOR THAT GUESS ON APPROX DATE. ARE PATINA ON THE WOOD, REMAINS OF WHITE LIME IN CARVED DESIGN. THE CLUB MAY HAVE BEEN MADE FOR USE WITH TWO HANDS AND THE PROJECTING THICKENED END THERE TO HELP THE BALANCE. THIS FORM OF CLUB WOULD HAVE BEEN USED FOR HIGH SPEED FENCING AND PARRYING LIKE A SWORD NOT JUST FOR BONKING.
THE SWORDS I HAVE MENTIONED WERE OF THE SWORD FORM AND WITH CARVED DECORATION TO THE STRIKING END BUT MANY QUITE DIFFERENT IN MANY WAYS.

fearn · 22nd September 2010, 04:07 PM

As for age, I tend to think 1940s-1950s, mostly because I have a 1950s era walking stick from my grandfather, and it has a similar patina.

As for the decorations, I'm a bit troubled by the "lime" on the spearhead, because it is white near an edge area that is battered. To me, this suggests that the pattern was (re)colored more recently than the edge damage. "Lime" is in quotes because it could be something else, like powdered paint or chalk, in addition to real lime.

F

Gavin Nugent · 23rd September 2010, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

As for age, I tend to think 1940s-1950s, mostly because I have a 1950s era walking stick from my grandfather, and it has a similar patina.

As for the decorations, I'm a bit troubled by the "lime" on the spearhead, because it is white near an edge area that is battered. To me, this suggests that the pattern was (re)colored more recently than the edge damage. "Lime" is in quotes because it could be something else, like powdered paint or chalk, in addition to real lime.

F

Hi Fearn,

So I see your right on with my age assumptions too

though I like Vandoo's better

In normal light what you see in not noticable though it you look real close under macro and flash as these images were taken, you can see the 'lime' inground in to the timber grain, my guess from when it was pressed into the carvings, all else are age blemishes to the timber. I'll try to find a suitable natural light over the weekend.
Do you know of difinative tests I can do at home to see if it is lime?

Gav

fearn · 23rd September 2010, 03:20 PM

Tests for lime? Pure chalk will rub off, of course. But both chalk and lime are probably calcium carbonate, so they will test the same. The fundamental test for calcium carbonate is a bit of acid: vinegar, draino (a much stronger acid), or something similar. Calcium carbonate will fizz as it dissolves.

I don't recommend testing your club this way, because it's not clear whether you'll learn anything worth knowing for the damage caused. Moreover, there's not much lime involved, so you'd have to watch carefully for any little bubbles.

The more interesting question is superposition: there appears to be use damage, and there's a design. Which came first? Was the design retouched after the damage? It's even possible for a decoration to be applied after damage, although I don't think that's the case here.

Basically, if a dent mars a decoration, the decoration came first. I'm curious if there are cases where there is damage over the decoration, and then fresher lime reapplied inside the design, but overlaying a dent.

Hope this helps,

F

VANDOO · 23rd September 2010, 04:22 PM

IF I REMEMBER CORECTLY LIME WAS MADE IN THE ISLANDS BY GRINDING CORAL INTO A DUST AND MAKEING A PASTE IT MAY HAVE BEEN BURNED FIRST

THE PASTE WAS APPLIED TO THE CLUB PUSHING IT INTO THE DESIGNS AND THEN THE EXCESS WIPED OFF AND THE CLUB ALLOWED TO DRY. OVER TIME LIME IS LIKELY TO FALL OUT IF PAINT WAS USED IT WOULD NOT CRUMBLE OR CRACK AND FALL OUT. MOST LIME IS MISSING ON YOUR EXAMPLE SO IT IS LIKELY THE TRADITIONAL LIME. PERHAPS A CLOSE LOOK VIA MAGNIFICATION WILL TELL MORE WITHOUT DOING DAMMAGE.

Gavin Nugent · 24th September 2010, 02:22 AM

Well, I was doing some image viewing on Google and look what I came across, not that it is club related but have a look at the Totems drawn in the top right side of the blog....similar features, teeth, tongues and features...some other direction to ponder???...I'd be interested in thoughts on these images even though they are drawn...the style must be drawn from somewhere in this region.....

Gav

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgu...:1&um=1&itbs=1

fearn · 24th September 2010, 02:50 AM

Well, I've attached a picture of a type of mask that I got from a vacationing relative, oh, 25 years ago. They still sell them in Hawaii, but I wouldn't call it traditional Hawaiian or even Polynesian. Tiki tradition? I don't know much about them.

This club could be in the same (ahem) "neo-traditional" vein.

Best,

F

24th September 2010, 02:22 AM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	have a look Well, I was doing some image viewing on Google and look what I came across, not that it is club related but have a look at the Totems drawn in the top right side of the blog....similar features, teeth, tongues and features...some other direction to ponder???...I'd be interested in thoughts on these images even though they are drawn...the style must be drawn from somewhere in this region..... Gav http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgu...:1&um=1&itbs=1 Last edited by freebooter; 24th September 2010 at 02:54 AM.

24th September 2010, 02:50 AM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Well, I've attached a picture of a type of mask that I got from a vacationing relative, oh, 25 years ago. They still sell them in Hawaii, but I wouldn't call it traditional Hawaiian or even Polynesian. Tiki tradition? I don't know much about them. This club could be in the same (ahem) "neo-traditional" vein. Best, F Attached Images

22nd September 2010, 05:53 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WOULD GUESS 1920'S THRU 1940'S. FOR THE B&W PLATE THERE WAS A LOT OF INTREST IN THE SOUTH SEA ISLANDS DURING THAT PERIOD. MANY STUDIES AND BOOKS BY ANTROPOLOGISTS FROM MANY COUNTRYS WERE DONE THEN AND QUITE A FEW EVEN EARLIER. MANY MUSEUMS PUT TOGETHER THEIR COLLECTIONS DURING THOSE EXPIDITIONS AND STUDYS. MANY ARTHORS ALSO TRAVELED AND WROTE ADVENTURE BOOKS DURING THAT ERA AS THE EXOTIC SOUTH PACIFIC WAS THE BIG ROMANTIC FANTASY IN THOSE TIMES. NOT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE YOUR CLUB I CAN ONLY GUESS AS TO ITS AGE. IT WAS LIKELY MADE BEFORE WW2 ,BUT MAY HAVE BEEN BROUGHT BACK DURING OR AFTER THAT TIME. REASONS FOR THAT GUESS ON APPROX DATE. ARE PATINA ON THE WOOD, REMAINS OF WHITE LIME IN CARVED DESIGN. THE CLUB MAY HAVE BEEN MADE FOR USE WITH TWO HANDS AND THE PROJECTING THICKENED END THERE TO HELP THE BALANCE. THIS FORM OF CLUB WOULD HAVE BEEN USED FOR HIGH SPEED FENCING AND PARRYING LIKE A SWORD NOT JUST FOR BONKING. THE SWORDS I HAVE MENTIONED WERE OF THE SWORD FORM AND WITH CARVED DECORATION TO THE STRIKING END BUT MANY QUITE DIFFERENT IN MANY WAYS.

22nd September 2010, 04:07 PM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	As for age, I tend to think 1940s-1950s, mostly because I have a 1950s era walking stick from my grandfather, and it has a similar patina. As for the decorations, I'm a bit troubled by the "lime" on the spearhead, because it is white near an edge area that is battered. To me, this suggests that the pattern was (re)colored more recently than the edge damage. "Lime" is in quotes because it could be something else, like powdered paint or chalk, in addition to real lime. F

23rd September 2010, 03:20 PM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Tests for lime? Pure chalk will rub off, of course. But both chalk and lime are probably calcium carbonate, so they will test the same. The fundamental test for calcium carbonate is a bit of acid: vinegar, draino (a much stronger acid), or something similar. Calcium carbonate will fizz as it dissolves. I don't recommend testing your club this way, because it's not clear whether you'll learn anything worth knowing for the damage caused. Moreover, there's not much lime involved, so you'd have to watch carefully for any little bubbles. The more interesting question is superposition: there appears to be use damage, and there's a design. Which came first? Was the design retouched after the damage? It's even possible for a decoration to be applied after damage, although I don't think that's the case here. Basically, if a dent mars a decoration, the decoration came first. I'm curious if there are cases where there is damage over the decoration, and then fresher lime reapplied inside the design, but overlaying a dent. Hope this helps, F

23rd September 2010, 04:22 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IF I REMEMBER CORECTLY LIME WAS MADE IN THE ISLANDS BY GRINDING CORAL INTO A DUST AND MAKEING A PASTE IT MAY HAVE BEEN BURNED FIRST THE PASTE WAS APPLIED TO THE CLUB PUSHING IT INTO THE DESIGNS AND THEN THE EXCESS WIPED OFF AND THE CLUB ALLOWED TO DRY. OVER TIME LIME IS LIKELY TO FALL OUT IF PAINT WAS USED IT WOULD NOT CRUMBLE OR CRACK AND FALL OUT. MOST LIME IS MISSING ON YOUR EXAMPLE SO IT IS LIKELY THE TRADITIONAL LIME. PERHAPS A CLOSE LOOK VIA MAGNIFICATION WILL TELL MORE WITHOUT DOING DAMMAGE.