When did wootz blades stop being made in India?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Yes, indeed. I remember reading that the English General John Jacobs, who served in mid 19th century India, opined that in his day, English cast steel swords were considered superior to all and highly sought by the locals.

Cheers
Chris

Now theres some fascinating history! In 1841, Jacobs formed a second unit of the irregular cavalry regiment 'Sind Horse', which later became known as the 36th cavalry, Jacobs Horse. He was known as a very scientific soldier as keenly aware of inadequacies and proposing revisions, so his observations would have been well placed....he was rather a burr under the saddle in London's eyes though.

Addendum:

I just remembered that years ago I had an unusual Indian tulwar which had a hilt of shamshir form, vertically faceted grip, the usual domed quillons and palmette style langet, all in solid steel. Most remarkable was its blade, distinctly a M1788 British light cavalry sabre, beautifully koftgariied at the forte. I have always regarded this sabre from Sind (or Scinde as it was often spelled in those days), and this would serve as perfect illustration of what Jacob was saying.
While the Khorasan region was key in supplying wootz blades in these northern areas, it was clear that these blades were often less than favorable in pitched combat. I recall discussions we have had in the past where it was noted that the British were stunned after they found that Sikh warriors had thier tulwars mounted with old M1796 type sabre blades discarded as obsolete by the British.

It would seem that by early to mid 19th century, advances in warfare technology brought in by European incursion and colonization opened new doors to increased weapons production and with new methods. Clearly the 'firangi' blades were well known even into the Deccan, and both Hyder Ali and Tipu used foreign advisors and mercenaries. Both were known to have had weapons mounted with European blades, and I believe Tipu had an Andrea Ferara blade if I recall.
The steel blades on most later tulwars seem to have used the European type steel in later years as they adopted those processes in forging.

[Atlantia]

Brilliant teamwork gentlemen. The pieces come together and the picture forms.

So is it possible to assign a date to the last manufacture of wootz? Is it possible that the wootz weapons made in the 19thC were made using the last of stockpiled ingots from 150 years earlier? (If wiki for once got something right!)
That would have made for some competition for quality ingots as supplies ran short surely?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Brilliant teamwork gentlemen. The pieces come together and the picture forms.

So is it possible to assign a date to the last manufacture of wootz? Is it possible that the wootz weapons made in the 19thC were made using the last of stockpiled ingots from 150 years earlier? (If wiki for once got something right!)
That would have made for some competition for quality ingots as supplies ran short surely?

Hi Gene,
Again, speaking only as speculation, it would seem that it would be pretty tough to assign a date or even example of the last blade of wootz produced. It would depend on which region was being assessed, the quality or grade of wootz used, and even if anyone had dated the blades, it would be hard to find each one to determine which was oldest. The only reference I could find to approximate was that the last high quality blades probably were effectively produced about mid 18th century. It was suggested that some of the lower grade wootz probably lasted into the 19th century.

In my opinion, since available trade blades, as well as Indian smiths learning to use European smelting methods and steel increased, while the significant ore deposits depleted, the making of wootz trailed off. It would seem that armourers to the courts probably still produced attractive courtly weapons and as these venerable subjects died out, so did the process. Even if they had tried to pass on thier secrets, not being metallurgists, they could not have known that even following steps intricately was to no avail if the inherent impurities in the ore used were absent.

It does seem that the abundance of these wootz steel 'cakes' would have gradually diminished, and it does seem there have been some stockpiles found in armouries somewhere, though there have been concerns over authenticity in some examples shown. As the skills of the armourers in producing wootz also went away, these ingots became more of a novelty it would seem. Im not sure if using the ingot would produce the desired effect unless forging was accomplished according to old methods.

All the best,
Jim

[Chris Evans]

Hi Jim,

I also remember reading somewhere that the Brits banned the production of wootz so as to curtail the manufacture of weapons. Can't remember when, but it may have been after the mutiny. All my books are packed away and have to rely on memory, which at my age is a bit of a hit and miss.

Cheers
Chris

[bhushan_lawate]

Hi,

An important point here will be to note how the foreign (namely French, Portugese and mostly English) influenced the natives....

Firearms rose in prominence thus rendering Swords and daggers as mere ceremonial objects...and after the Mutiny of 1857 the British seized and destroyed hundreds of swords.

Also the artisans were banned and at instances killed. (numerous such examples available especially in Deccan where families were put to death thus leading to an abrupt end of knowledge of hundreds of years)

Generally speaking it is the post 1857 era which can be treated as a landmark of the end of a golden era in craftsmanship.

Regards,
Bhushan

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Chris,
I know what ya mean!!! The library here in the bookmobile is paltry compared to the old days in the house where I had a study!!! and memory...what?
I think it was in Elgood where the British banned production of wootz in the Deccan to stop deforestation? Environmental? or to eliminate competition for thier growing industry.

Very good points Bhushan, and the advent of firearms became prevalent issue in nearly all colonial environments whether Africa, the Americas, Asia et al. I believe that the swords that were destroyed after the mutiny period were in Malabar regions where the Moplah knives and Ayda Khatti's were destroyed. By the 1870s and 80s when the British dismantled some of the armouries there were thousands of swords and weapons in huge rusting heaps such as at Tanjore most notably.

I agree that the Mutiny was truly a benchmark in the texture of India, and there was certainly a decline in craftsmanship, but I believe in degree the kingdoms and principalities that were diplomatically stable within the Raj still had key artisans. I think some of the catalogs of workmanship that displayed items with amazing work were from many of these regions were compiled by writers like Egerton (1880) and Hendley (I believe 1903) as examples.

I'm just glad that many of these fabulous weapons have been preserved, and that there are still those out there continuing important studies in thier development and history.

All best regards,
Jim

[Jens Nordlunde]

It is interesting Jim, as when a weapon has been bought by a museum, it most likely ends up in the reserves, not to be seen by anyone, or almost by anyone - but when it ends up in a private collection it mostly ends up closed up, for forty or fifty years.
I don't mean that the collectors does nor care for their weapons, just the opposite, but many don't want to show them, for several reasons.
Jens