Keris Betok on Ebay

David · 17th September 2010, 02:51 PM

MyKeris, you seem to to be deeply invested in convincing us that this is indeed an authentic Keris Buda. Is this keris now yours or are you looking to obtain it. Perhaps instead of pushing for members here to explain why they believe it is not authentic you could point out the aspects of this blade that seem to have you convinced that it is authentic.
Of course, much better photographs with extreme close-ups would probably aid in such a discussion.

"I would not swallow everything what Alan said unless he represents the Indonesian majority."
I'm not at all sure what this is supposed to mean. In a world that is as subjective as the keris world is, what exactly is an "Indonesian majority" and why does it matter in this instance? Are you suggesting a coalition of keris experts from across the entire archipelago (representatives from Malaysian as well of course) would come to some majority of agreement on anything to do with keris. Or are you speaking of a majority of the Indonesians represented only on this board? Or perhaps we could poll the entire populous of Indonesia on this keris buda and see what they all think.

mykeris · 17th September 2010, 04:41 PM

Noted and Thank you, have a nice weekend. Rgrds, Mykeris..

A. G. Maisey · 17th September 2010, 10:40 PM

I was tempted to put up a post on the vagaries of tayuh yesterday, Penangsang.

Then I thought better of it.

But you've opened this, so here is a little bit more.

My daughter's brother in law is very, very kejawen. A few years ago his wife passed away, and at the same time he retired from work. At this point he became very interested in keris, and began to acquire some. He only keeps keris that have a spirit in them, and that spirit must be either a pangeran or a kyai. He determines this by sleeping with the keris under his pillow and he knows from the dream he has if the keris has a spirit and what it is. Some of his keris are brand new, but they still have a spirit in them. According to him the spirit was already in the iron before the keris was made. He has been marginalised in the family because everybody thinks he is no longer all there.

Additional to this.

Over many years I have seen a number of keris that had been subjected to tayuh by noted and respected people associated with the Kraton Surakarta. All had some isi. Again, some of these keris were recent productions, usually from Madura. On the one occasion when I had the opportunity to question the man who did the actual dreaming, I was told the same thing:- yes, the keris is new, but the iron is very ancient and has life --- the isi was already in the iron before the keris was made.

There are many beliefs associated with keris. For somebody who believes, these things are real.

But if you don't believe, don't argue or try to convince otherwise, just accept that the other person believes, and walk away.

17th September 2010, 02:51 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	MyKeris, you seem to to be deeply invested in convincing us that this is indeed an authentic Keris Buda. Is this keris now yours or are you looking to obtain it. Perhaps instead of pushing for members here to explain why they believe it is not authentic you could point out the aspects of this blade that seem to have you convinced that it is authentic. Of course, much better photographs with extreme close-ups would probably aid in such a discussion. "I would not swallow everything what Alan said unless he represents the Indonesian majority." I'm not at all sure what this is supposed to mean. In a world that is as subjective as the keris world is, what exactly is an "Indonesian majority" and why does it matter in this instance? Are you suggesting a coalition of keris experts from across the entire archipelago (representatives from Malaysian as well of course) would come to some majority of agreement on anything to do with keris. Or are you speaking of a majority of the Indonesians represented only on this board? Or perhaps we could poll the entire populous of Indonesia on this keris buda and see what they all think.

17th September 2010, 04:41 PM	#2
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Noted and Thank you, have a nice weekend. Rgrds, Mykeris..

17th September 2010, 10:40 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I was tempted to put up a post on the vagaries of tayuh yesterday, Penangsang. Then I thought better of it. But you've opened this, so here is a little bit more. My daughter's brother in law is very, very kejawen. A few years ago his wife passed away, and at the same time he retired from work. At this point he became very interested in keris, and began to acquire some. He only keeps keris that have a spirit in them, and that spirit must be either a pangeran or a kyai. He determines this by sleeping with the keris under his pillow and he knows from the dream he has if the keris has a spirit and what it is. Some of his keris are brand new, but they still have a spirit in them. According to him the spirit was already in the iron before the keris was made. He has been marginalised in the family because everybody thinks he is no longer all there. Additional to this. Over many years I have seen a number of keris that had been subjected to tayuh by noted and respected people associated with the Kraton Surakarta. All had some isi. Again, some of these keris were recent productions, usually from Madura. On the one occasion when I had the opportunity to question the man who did the actual dreaming, I was told the same thing:- yes, the keris is new, but the iron is very ancient and has life --- the isi was already in the iron before the keris was made. There are many beliefs associated with keris. For somebody who believes, these things are real. But if you don't believe, don't argue or try to convince otherwise, just accept that the other person believes, and walk away.