First Post, help identify

Jim McDougall · 16th September 2010, 01:20 AM

Hey Guys, thanks so much!!!shucks it was nuthin'

Actually Gene, it was that Prussian eagle that got me just like you said, then I saw those sword knot slots.
Actually I looked at it and everything screamed British, and I hadn't really thought about the close connection in those days with Germany.
I really appreciate the kind words, it was fun research and Im glad I could present a more intriguing review on this, thanks for posting it Larry.

All the best,
Jim

lgcal20ga · 16th September 2010, 01:53 AM

Guys I am impressed. I have thought for years, based on my humble research as a young kid (literally) that it was British. I remember my dad telling me he found it in a German farm building. Don't recall if he said house or barn, but it certainly wasn't being used on the "field of battle" when he was there. Talked to my uncle, and I am looking for more information on where exactly my father might have traveled. I do know that he was injured in the Ardennes, right at the beginning of the Battle of the Bulge.

Thanks for the warm welcome, and all the information. BTW, the REME Museum of Bershire, England, wrote back to me and they were convinced it was a British Cavalryman's sword as well, so don't feel back about making that assumption.

I will update as more information comes available.

Thanks!!

Larry

Jeff D · 16th September 2010, 03:24 AM

Hi Jim,

I definitely want that iPhone app, But, I think I see two heads on that chicken

. That looks Like a Hapsburg eagle. Look on Pg 422 Plate 52. I think this is a Austrian Officers model 1850, Made by the Viennese firm Mitter 1840-1860.

All the Best
Jeff

Jim McDougall · 16th September 2010, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff D

Hi Jim,

I definitely want that iPhone app, But, I think I see two heads on that chicken

. That looks Like a Hapsburg eagle. Look on Pg 422 Plate 52. I think this is a Austrian Officers model 1850, Made by the Viennese firm Mitten 1840-1860.

All the Best
Jeff

Auughghh! Jeff, ya got me!!!!!!! Andy Warhol syndrome.......but I got a little more than 15 minutes

I need better glasses, and couldnt see the second head on the chicken! but the illustration is spot on as you note.
I'll hand ya the trophy, but still think my story would make a better movie !!

Larry, its still a beauty of a sword, and the Austrian ones are not common as the British ones.
Im still wondering about that H that seems adjacent to the eagle, and the double head eagle marking. I believe Hesse did side with Austria in the conflicts earlier in the 19th century against Prussia. Still a glimmer of hope for Hesse

Good job Jeff, you got good radar, as I always said!!

All the best,
Jim

Jeff D · 16th September 2010, 04:01 AM

Hi Jim,

I still want to load your 'sword brain' into my iPhone, of course the phone would need more memory.

All the Best

Jeff

Jim McDougall · 16th September 2010, 04:14 AM

Thanks Jeff

, actually it looks like the sword brain thing is more of a team effort here, so yeah, it would need a lots of memory.

Correction on my previous post, it was in the War of 1866 that Hesse sided with Austria against Prussia, and it seems interesting that the Hesse pattern is so much like the Austrian. At least that gives some good perspective on the influence. This has been an interesting exercise in these swords of the Austrian and Imperial German armies though, its great to learn more !!!

Its always great to be posting with ya Jeff!!!! Its been a while,
All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 16th September 2010, 04:15 AM

Ahhhh...now this is why I just love the Forum. Absolutely an incredible ID. I think we all know how good it feels when we can pin-point these tricky pieces. Excellent job, Jim! Now, where is my iphone-

Jim McDougall · 16th September 2010, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Ahhhh...now this is why I just love the Forum. Absolutely an incredible ID. I think we all know how good it feels when we can pin-point these tricky pieces. Excellent job, Jim! Now, where is my iphone-

Thanks Mark, it really has been a great ride....and Jeff has got it spot on. You're right, thats what the forum is about, and its these kinds of posts that make it fun.
Larry...you still out there???

All the best,
Jim

mrwizard · 16th September 2010, 09:36 AM

just a small remark from someone living in Hesse...
The map posted by Jim shows the post WW2 state Hessen.
The "Grossherzogtum Hessen und bei Rhein (Grand Duchy of Hesse and by Rhine)" looked somewhat different:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Hesse

Best Regards,
Thilo

lgcal20ga · 16th September 2010, 04:00 AM

http://books.google.com/books?id=pVE...page&q&f=false

The link came up when I Googled 1850 Austrian Officer Sword. The picture on page 15 (explanation is on page 14) identifies the one in the middle as an officers model 1850, and it very well could be exact match. Has the sword knot slots and the same scrolled quillon.

Is that the same sword?

Larry

16th September 2010, 03:24 AM	#3
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi Jim, I definitely want that iPhone app, But, I think I see two heads on that chicken . That looks Like a Hapsburg eagle. Look on Pg 422 Plate 52. I think this is a Austrian Officers model 1850, Made by the Viennese firm Mitter 1840-1860. All the Best Jeff Last edited by Jeff D; 16th September 2010 at 03:47 AM.

16th September 2010, 01:20 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,506	Hey Guys, thanks so much!!!shucks it was nuthin' Actually Gene, it was that Prussian eagle that got me just like you said, then I saw those sword knot slots. Actually I looked at it and everything screamed British, and I hadn't really thought about the close connection in those days with Germany. I really appreciate the kind words, it was fun research and Im glad I could present a more intriguing review on this, thanks for posting it Larry. All the best, Jim

16th September 2010, 01:53 AM	#2
lgcal20ga Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5	Guys I am impressed. I have thought for years, based on my humble research as a young kid (literally) that it was British. I remember my dad telling me he found it in a German farm building. Don't recall if he said house or barn, but it certainly wasn't being used on the "field of battle" when he was there. Talked to my uncle, and I am looking for more information on where exactly my father might have traveled. I do know that he was injured in the Ardennes, right at the beginning of the Battle of the Bulge. Thanks for the warm welcome, and all the information. BTW, the REME Museum of Bershire, England, wrote back to me and they were convinced it was a British Cavalryman's sword as well, so don't feel back about making that assumption. I will update as more information comes available. Thanks!! Larry

16th September 2010, 04:01 AM	#5
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi Jim, I still want to load your 'sword brain' into my iPhone, of course the phone would need more memory. All the Best Jeff

16th September 2010, 04:14 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,506	Thanks Jeff , actually it looks like the sword brain thing is more of a team effort here, so yeah, it would need a lots of memory. Correction on my previous post, it was in the War of 1866 that Hesse sided with Austria against Prussia, and it seems interesting that the Hesse pattern is so much like the Austrian. At least that gives some good perspective on the influence. This has been an interesting exercise in these swords of the Austrian and Imperial German armies though, its great to learn more !!! Its always great to be posting with ya Jeff!!!! Its been a while, All the best, Jim

16th September 2010, 04:15 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Ahhhh...now this is why I just love the Forum. Absolutely an incredible ID. I think we all know how good it feels when we can pin-point these tricky pieces. Excellent job, Jim! Now, where is my iphone-

16th September 2010, 09:36 AM	#9
mrwizard Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 102	just a small remark from someone living in Hesse... The map posted by Jim shows the post WW2 state Hessen. The "Grossherzogtum Hessen und bei Rhein (Grand Duchy of Hesse and by Rhine)" looked somewhat different: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Hesse Best Regards, Thilo

16th September 2010, 04:00 AM	#10
lgcal20ga Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5	http://books.google.com/books?id=pVE...page&q&f=false The link came up when I Googled 1850 Austrian Officer Sword. The picture on page 15 (explanation is on page 14) identifies the one in the middle as an officers model 1850, and it very well could be exact match. Has the sword knot slots and the same scrolled quillon. Is that the same sword? Larry