Keris Betok on Ebay

[mykeris]

Noted and thanks Alan, excellent opinion. Mykeris.

[PenangsangII]

I am wondering about it too.... is the genuine old ones lighter or heavier.... I've seen very light weight and thin bladed jalak buda but it was found in South Sulawesi (dressed Javanese). It seemed quite old probably more than 300 yrs old. But still I am quite skeptical whether it was a genuine blade or not. Please enlighten.

[A. G. Maisey]

There's a lot more to it than just being light or heavy, Penangsang.

I've focussed on archaic blades for many years, and have a fairly good collection of them, however, I will not post photos of my personal keris, so I'm sorry, but I cannot give examples.

With this particular one I know through personal experience exactly what I am looking at, and this is because of a combination of factors, factors that I am not prepared to expand upon here.

Still, it is only an opinion, and everybody is entitled to their own.

[PenangsangII]

Many thanks Alan.

There are many betok and jalak buda (even Sombro) keris currently in the market including on line. Some web sites even guarantee such kerises as genuinely of Kadiri, Jenggala or Singhasari tangguh.

Like David's term "Eprey", I am very cautious when buying on-line.

[A. G. Maisey]

Well, all this current fixation with tangguh is understandable. When its all said and done, its opinion, and anybody can have an opinion.

But there is a difference between an informed opinion and an uninformed opinion.

There is also a difference between truth and deliberate misrepresentation.

How we buy is always a balance of how much we know personally, and how much we can trust the people we buy from. Probably some things from unknown sellers on Ebay are OK, but I've never been brave enough to take the gamble. What happens if I make a mistake? Then I'm stuck with something I don't want and cannot sell ---if I sell it and it becomes associated with me I lose a lot more than just a few $$$.

I did buy a keris off Ebay once, but it was one I had sold some years before. I knew it.

Regular dealers who sell from a site should be trustworthy, but regrettably not all are. Maybe their honesty depends upon whether you're a recognised friend of the dealer, or just another dumb beginner who isn't yet out of kindergarten.

With tangguh, I feel that if somebody quotes a tangguh in a sales speil it would be quite legitimate for a prospective buyer to ask the seller exactly what the specific indicators are that have allowed him to form the opinion that the item is, for instance, Majapahit. As I said, there is opinion and informed opinion. An informed opinion should be able to be supported.

[David]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Like David's term "Eprey", I am very cautious when buying on-line.

The term i used Penangsang, was ePray, and i would never claim that one as my own. Your term, ePrey, implies something completely different, yet just as true about eBay. I think i like your term better.

[mykeris]

Appreciate if Alan could just a little bit analyze the shortcomings of this blade as compared to the so called genuine budo. Thanks in advance.mykeris.Photo: exctracted from Ebay. Note: I had a similar blade purchased from ebay long time ago (quite pricely) and sold it to one Indonesian Keris Collector who claimed it to be a genuine blade. It was heavy with deteriorating blade like one shown in pic. Really confused me. p/s: Penangsang: TQ.

[A. G. Maisey]

Sorry, but I'm not going to do that.

Let's just say that I know exactly where this originated and exactly what it has experienced since.

I've given an opinion on this, and that's where it stops.

[mykeris]

[QUOTE=David]The term i used Penangsang, was ePray, and i would never claim that one as my own. Your term, ePrey, implies something completely different, yet just as true about eBay. I think i like your term better. [/QUOTE

Good to stay neutral which I used to, I would advise not to offend other true on-line sellers.

[David]

[QUOTE=mykeris]

Originally Posted by David

The term i used Penangsang, was ePray, and i would never claim that one as my own. Your term, ePrey, implies something completely different, yet just as true about eBay. I think i like your term better. [/QUOTE

Good to stay neutral which I used to, I would advise not to offend other true on-line sellers.

Thanks for the advice MyKeris, but I think that any "true on-line seller" (which i assume you mean to say honest on-liner seller) is obviously not the type of seller i refer to in the use of this terminology. These honest sellers are well aware that they are surrounded by a peer group that very often actively attempts to deceive prospective bidders and buyers. And so they do indeed prey on bidders and the bidders do at time need to pray themselves. To act on the assumption that any seller is telling you the whole truth, even if they are, will no doubt lead to many disappointing purchases. So the buyer must always beware in on-line auctions like eBay.
The honest dealers know who they are and have nothing to fear. I have in no way insulted them. The dishonest dealers i have no care for and as the old saying goes, "If the shoe fits, wear it".