iron hand grenade

fernando · 12th September 2010, 07:14 PM

Most interesting,
I hope the experts have a say on this one!

M ELEY · 13th September 2010, 04:47 PM

No expert here, but I had to comment- that is a great piece! I have one of the later versions without the raised lip that probably had a wooden plug. Mine dates from 17th-18th c. From the look of the casting and patina to the iron, I'm suspecting this is Medieval, as grenadoes dated back to the 14th c, I believe? Yours would have had a simple long fuse vs the wooden plug of later models. I'm wondering if yours was a shipwreck pick-up?

Atlantia · 13th September 2010, 11:19 PM

Wow! What a thing to find. Brilliant addition to a collection, congratulations!

Matchlock · 23rd September 2010, 11:24 PM

Hi eftihis,

Great acquisition, that one, and, right: probably Venetian or, in general, North Italian or Austria. Many thanks for sharing! P.S. Why shouldn't it be of Greek origin?

Mark, I think your first guess in dating was quite correct: 17th to 18th century.

No hints or contemporary sources on hand grenades seem to exist before the 16th century but I'll try and re-check that.

For anybody interested in similar early grenades, please see my following thread

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=hand+grenades

Best,
Michael

Gavin Nugent · 24th September 2010, 12:13 AM

A most remarkable find and a most remarkable thread bought back to light, thanks for sharing guys.
I was surprised to see just how many of these were excavated in the link provided. Are there indications about the results and effects in combat. I sit and wonder how effective they were compared to the massive effect modern examples have.

Gav

M ELEY · 24th September 2010, 03:04 AM

Wow, Michael, I don't know how I missed your earlier thread, but thank you so much for reposting it! Incredible! Too bad we don't have finds like that here in the States. Eftihis, again, you are a lucky chap to own one of these. Very nice!

Gav, the effectiveness of these old grenadoes could be unpredictible. Somewhere in my reading, I heard of a modern equivilent being set off in an earthen trench. In that test, one side of the wall was raked with shrapnel, while the other somehow missed most of the blast. No two results were the same. In that incredibly accurate show 'Deadliest Warrior' (

), in Knight vs Pirate, they demonstrate a blast with one with good effect. Finally, I would direct your attention to the battle between John Paul Jones and the Brits off Flamborough Head during the Amer Revolution. It is said the entire turn of battle was from some enterprising chap up in the top-sails with a budge-basket of these little nasties, dropping them down strategically on groups of the enemy.

M ELEY · 24th September 2010, 05:07 AM

www.alderneywreck.com/?page_id=190

I've seen ceramic "Persian" vessels with rounded bottoms as well. I'm assuming these fire pots came in many different shapes depending on nation??

23rd September 2010, 11:24 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi eftihis, Great acquisition, that one, and, right: probably Venetian or, in general, North Italian or Austria. Many thanks for sharing! P.S. Why shouldn't it be of Greek origin? Mark, I think your first guess in dating was quite correct: 17th to 18th century. No hints or contemporary sources on hand grenades seem to exist before the 16th century but I'll try and re-check that. For anybody interested in similar early grenades, please see my following thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=hand+grenades Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 23rd September 2010 at 11:43 PM.

24th September 2010, 12:13 AM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Cool A most remarkable find and a most remarkable thread bought back to light, thanks for sharing guys. I was surprised to see just how many of these were excavated in the link provided. Are there indications about the results and effects in combat. I sit and wonder how effective they were compared to the massive effect modern examples have. Gav

24th September 2010, 05:07 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,171	One of the oldest of incendiaries... www.alderneywreck.com/?page_id=190 I've seen ceramic "Persian" vessels with rounded bottoms as well. I'm assuming these fire pots came in many different shapes depending on nation??

12th September 2010, 07:14 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Most interesting, I hope the experts have a say on this one!

13th September 2010, 04:47 PM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,171	No expert here, but I had to comment- that is a great piece! I have one of the later versions without the raised lip that probably had a wooden plug. Mine dates from 17th-18th c. From the look of the casting and patina to the iron, I'm suspecting this is Medieval, as grenadoes dated back to the 14th c, I believe? Yours would have had a simple long fuse vs the wooden plug of later models. I'm wondering if yours was a shipwreck pick-up?

13th September 2010, 11:19 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Wow! What a thing to find. Brilliant addition to a collection, congratulations!

24th September 2010, 03:04 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,171	Wow, Michael, I don't know how I missed your earlier thread, but thank you so much for reposting it! Incredible! Too bad we don't have finds like that here in the States. Eftihis, again, you are a lucky chap to own one of these. Very nice! Gav, the effectiveness of these old grenadoes could be unpredictible. Somewhere in my reading, I heard of a modern equivilent being set off in an earthen trench. In that test, one side of the wall was raked with shrapnel, while the other somehow missed most of the blast. No two results were the same. In that incredibly accurate show 'Deadliest Warrior' ( ), in Knight vs Pirate, they demonstrate a blast with one with good effect. Finally, I would direct your attention to the battle between John Paul Jones and the Brits off Flamborough Head during the Amer Revolution. It is said the entire turn of battle was from some enterprising chap up in the top-sails with a budge-basket of these little nasties, dropping them down strategically on groups of the enemy.