Sword for identification

Marc · 9th September 2010, 12:17 PM

Just to be completely honest, I haven't discarded a more or less modern replica (pretty well done, that's true), I just lack enough data, at the moment, to say much more than what it has been already said. Here's where things like a traceable provenance kick in to help, for example, and what turns every case in a particular world by itself.
Oh, well, that's what keeps things interesting, too...

Jim McDougall · 9th September 2010, 01:40 PM

My concerns are the rather heavily embellished 'x's ; that the fuller runs to the root of the blade; the typical Toledo type makers cartouche, often with a T is absent in the blade root area and most apparant, the unusually crisp 'anchor' is within the fuller rather than at its terminus.
Also, I have never seen one of these tangs threaded.

But, as Marc has well noted, thats what keeps things interesting, and it would seem that as this type of blade was heavily exported specifically for hilting locally produced or refurbishing damaged rapiers in Spain's colonies.

Dmitry · 9th September 2010, 02:15 PM

Looking at the up-close photo, I will stand myself corrected. This was no sand paper. It was a belt-grinder and sand-paper.
There are two options here for me.
1. The threaded tang indicates that this blade was mated to a pommel that was not original to it. In other words, this blade was recently taken off a composite sword. The blade decorations may have been refreshed and re-cut. We see that in the antique firearms market.
2. The other explanation for a threaded tang is that the blade is 19th century, from an old style officer's sword-rapier, like an Austrian infantry sword, or a British household cavalry dress sword, both from the first quarter of the 1800s. Blades of this style were in vogue with the upper echelons of the officer class for a short time, and were produced to imitate the earlier styles.

GIO · 9th September 2010, 02:52 PM

Thanks again to everybody.
Frankly, one of my first assumptions was it could be an Austrian civil servant sword for ceremonies. Does the scabbard in no way help ?

stephen wood · 9th September 2010, 11:20 PM

I think it has been ground.

celtan · 11th September 2010, 04:29 PM

That's not its scabbard
Manuel

celtan · 11th September 2010, 04:30 PM

9th September 2010, 12:17 PM	#1
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Just to be completely honest, I haven't discarded a more or less modern replica (pretty well done, that's true), I just lack enough data, at the moment, to say much more than what it has been already said. Here's where things like a traceable provenance kick in to help, for example, and what turns every case in a particular world by itself. Oh, well, that's what keeps things interesting, too...

9th September 2010, 01:40 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	My concerns are the rather heavily embellished 'x's ; that the fuller runs to the root of the blade; the typical Toledo type makers cartouche, often with a T is absent in the blade root area and most apparant, the unusually crisp 'anchor' is within the fuller rather than at its terminus. Also, I have never seen one of these tangs threaded. But, as Marc has well noted, thats what keeps things interesting, and it would seem that as this type of blade was heavily exported specifically for hilting locally produced or refurbishing damaged rapiers in Spain's colonies.

9th September 2010, 02:15 PM	#3
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Looking at the up-close photo, I will stand myself corrected. This was no sand paper. It was a belt-grinder and sand-paper. There are two options here for me. 1. The threaded tang indicates that this blade was mated to a pommel that was not original to it. In other words, this blade was recently taken off a composite sword. The blade decorations may have been refreshed and re-cut. We see that in the antique firearms market. 2. The other explanation for a threaded tang is that the blade is 19th century, from an old style officer's sword-rapier, like an Austrian infantry sword, or a British household cavalry dress sword, both from the first quarter of the 1800s. Blades of this style were in vogue with the upper echelons of the officer class for a short time, and were produced to imitate the earlier styles.

9th September 2010, 02:52 PM	#4
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 328	Thanks again to everybody. Frankly, one of my first assumptions was it could be an Austrian civil servant sword for ceremonies. Does the scabbard in no way help ?

9th September 2010, 11:20 PM	#5
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	I think it has been ground.

11th September 2010, 04:29 PM	#6
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	That's not its scabbard Manuel

11th September 2010, 04:30 PM	#7
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679