Origin of the term Eisenhauer

Dmitry · 1st September 2010, 06:09 PM

This is great and very useful information, Jim. Thanks.
I'll be ordering that book presently.

Example no.2.

The theme of the decorations on the blade is the same as the example no.1, but executed differently.
After reading what you wrote regarding the Majar blades, it's probable that both of these blades are from the mid to late 1800s. My assertion that the term Eisenhauer may pre-date mid-1800s is beginning to crumble. Knowledge is a dangerous thing!

I am certain that the explanation and origins of Eisenhauer are to be found in the German language books on the subject. One day it'll come up.

Jim McDougall · 2nd September 2010, 06:14 AM

I'm glad to be able to add some information on this great topic, and think you are right, there has to be some kind of information on the use of this term in the warranty or guarantee sense. It would be great to know where Jean Binck got the information on the iron wire cutting test used in early Passau, but he's been notably out of touch for some time. Bezdek (p.10) suggests rather aprocryphally that the 'eisenhauerklinge' (iron cutting blade) was a process of hardening the edge learned from Islamic swordsmiths by German crusaders. While there is a degree of truth in the metalworking secrets of the smiths of Moorish Spain being carried to the Frankish smiths, it is known conversely that Frankish blades were also much in demand in Moorish Spain.
Regardless, the use of the term remains unclear in these earlier times.

The use of the term is seen in characteristic Victorian literature, in an 1884 reference on antiquities; "...the sword before us is the mael or hringmael, so called from its cutting the ring of the hauberk in twain, as the modern German 'eisenhauer' hews through the iron of the foe".

I agree that the term probably was emplaced in recalling this type of strength to the blade, and likely came about the time of the commercial conflicts between German and English swordsmiths c.1788-1810 where the 'warranted never to fail' type inscriptions were used on British blades.
Before this time, the guild marks or other symbolic marks were presumed to carry this quality guarantee without being worded.

Sabre #2 here is an even nicer example of these Arab sabres with these Majar blades. As mentioned these blades seem to have been Solingen products, and Bezdek also mentions that typically Austrian blades were made in Germany (the few Austrian makers typically marked thier name on thier work). At the end of the 18th century, this was the case with the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and it is noted in Wagner (plate 42) that the figure of the crowned, recumbent lion was characteristic of blades produced c.1791. This was the time when Leopold II was crowned king of Bohemia.

The deep channeled fullers on these seem to correspond to sabres of these East European regions around the turn of the century into 1820s. By the mid 19th century Solingen was more typically using the hollow ground type blades seen on cavalry sabres through the 19th century.

You're right, knowledge can sometimes prove disappointing when following a certain theory and it becomes disproven, but I still think your idea of the earlier use of this term may be well placed. I have checked all the references I can and cannot find evidence of a maker with this name, though we know of course it has become a surname. The period of the recumbent lion is noted earlier, and the term is on an earlier type blade, on two examples.
I think thus far, these two sabres plausibly suggest earlier use as you have observed.....sure would like to hear of other examples or references from others out there too!

Thanks for the excellent examples and discussion Dmitry!!!!

All the best,
Jim

Dmitry · 2nd September 2010, 07:39 PM

I've asked some German collectors on the origins of 'Eisenhauer', so far no-one could give a definite answer, but the general agreement for the appearance of the term is still the mid-1800s, which [again] leads me do believe that it was a marketing logo. I'll keep looking. I am sure the answer is out there, but unfortunately I don't speak or understand a word of German.
I've also ordered "The Arms and Armour of Arabia". Thanks for the tip, Jim!

Jim McDougall · 4th September 2010, 03:48 AM

I dont think there is any doubt that the use of the term was a marketing gimmick in the mid 19th century, I've seen the term emblazoned on a banner type marking on blades before and of that period. What I'd like to discover is the source and vintage of this term/concept.
In England Samuel Harvey used the venerable old 'running fox' in the mid 18th century, when its use by German makers had ceased in the previous century.

Im glad you ordered "Arms and Armour of Arabia", its a fantastic reference and though the title seems restricted, Elgood's books never are. The footnotes carry important references and clues that seem to apply in an incredibly wide scope of topics.

All the best,
Jim

Matchlock · 19th September 2010, 10:58 PM

Hi Dmitry and Jim,

Being a German native speaker, I have tried my best to do research on the term Eisenhauer because it doubtlessly is German.

After leafing thru some 15th and 16th century sources it first seemed to go back to the diggers in the iron mines who dug the iron strands out of the rock. From the 16th century onwards, though, it seems to have been used not only for blade smiths but synonymous of nearly all weapon smiths. By that time, too, it had developed into a common familly name many of which stem from the kind of the former craft of the guy given. Another simlilar name is Eisenmenger (iron mingler), which seems to refer more strictly to the smiths who mixed various sorts of iron in order to get optimum quality steel.

Of course, President Dwight D. Eisenhower had, among others, German ancestors.
I have not been able to trace back the family name Eisenhauer to a manufacturer of blades but in all probability there must have been somebody with that name the quality of whose blades became synonymous of good blades in general and, in consequence, was often copied by other bladesmiths - just like the Passau or Solingen wolf marks.

Hoping to have been helpful,
best,
Michael

Jim McDougall · 25th September 2010, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Dmitry and Jim,

Being a German native speaker, I have tried my best to do research on the term Eisenhauer because it doubtlessly is German.

After leafing thru some 15th and 16th century sources it first seemed to go back to the diggers in the iron mines who dug the iron strands out of the rock. From the 16th century onwards, though, it seems to have been used not only for blade smiths but synonymous of nearly all weapon smiths. By that time, too, it had developed into a common familly name many of which stem from the kind of the former craft of the guy given. Another simlilar name is Eisenmenger (iron mingler), which seems to refer more strictly to the smiths who mixed various sorts of iron in order to get optimum quality steel.

Of course, President Dwight D. Eisenhower had, among others, German ancestors.
I have not been able to trace back the family name Eisenhauer to a manufacturer of blades but in all probability there must have been somebody with that name the quality of whose blades became synonymous of good blades in general and, in consequence, was often copied by other bladesmiths - just like the Passau or Solingen wolf marks.

Hoping to have been helpful,
best,
Michael

Hi Michael,
Thank you so much for this information, and its really helpful to have inside information from these early German sources, which I know you know so thoroughly with the amazing research you always present here. It does indeed seem that so many family names evolved from trade characteristics as one of the many roots . I had not thought of the 'mingling' of iron, as we know the manner for forging pattern welded blades.

Interesting note on our former president Dwight D. Eisenhower also!

Outstanding information Michael, much appreciated,
All the best,
Jim

katana · 25th September 2010, 05:46 PM

Checking 'Babelfish' I have found that 'Eisenhauer' does not directly translate. Checking 'eisen' and 'hauer', as seperate words gives iron and hauer (ie no translated word)

However, eisen and haue ( I removed the 'r') is iron strike, this ties in neatly with Michael's post......afterall couldn't a blade/blacksmith be discribed as an 'iron striker'. Perhaps the term is not to do with the quality of the steel...but the quality of the blades's manufacture ??

Regards David

1st September 2010, 06:09 PM	#1
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	This is great and very useful information, Jim. Thanks. I'll be ordering that book presently. Example no.2. The theme of the decorations on the blade is the same as the example no.1, but executed differently. After reading what you wrote regarding the Majar blades, it's probable that both of these blades are from the mid to late 1800s. My assertion that the term Eisenhauer may pre-date mid-1800s is beginning to crumble. Knowledge is a dangerous thing! I am certain that the explanation and origins of Eisenhauer are to be found in the German language books on the subject. One day it'll come up. Attached Images

2nd September 2010, 06:14 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	I'm glad to be able to add some information on this great topic, and think you are right, there has to be some kind of information on the use of this term in the warranty or guarantee sense. It would be great to know where Jean Binck got the information on the iron wire cutting test used in early Passau, but he's been notably out of touch for some time. Bezdek (p.10) suggests rather aprocryphally that the 'eisenhauerklinge' (iron cutting blade) was a process of hardening the edge learned from Islamic swordsmiths by German crusaders. While there is a degree of truth in the metalworking secrets of the smiths of Moorish Spain being carried to the Frankish smiths, it is known conversely that Frankish blades were also much in demand in Moorish Spain. Regardless, the use of the term remains unclear in these earlier times. The use of the term is seen in characteristic Victorian literature, in an 1884 reference on antiquities; "...the sword before us is the mael or hringmael, so called from its cutting the ring of the hauberk in twain, as the modern German 'eisenhauer' hews through the iron of the foe". I agree that the term probably was emplaced in recalling this type of strength to the blade, and likely came about the time of the commercial conflicts between German and English swordsmiths c.1788-1810 where the 'warranted never to fail' type inscriptions were used on British blades. Before this time, the guild marks or other symbolic marks were presumed to carry this quality guarantee without being worded. Sabre #2 here is an even nicer example of these Arab sabres with these Majar blades. As mentioned these blades seem to have been Solingen products, and Bezdek also mentions that typically Austrian blades were made in Germany (the few Austrian makers typically marked thier name on thier work). At the end of the 18th century, this was the case with the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and it is noted in Wagner (plate 42) that the figure of the crowned, recumbent lion was characteristic of blades produced c.1791. This was the time when Leopold II was crowned king of Bohemia. The deep channeled fullers on these seem to correspond to sabres of these East European regions around the turn of the century into 1820s. By the mid 19th century Solingen was more typically using the hollow ground type blades seen on cavalry sabres through the 19th century. You're right, knowledge can sometimes prove disappointing when following a certain theory and it becomes disproven, but I still think your idea of the earlier use of this term may be well placed. I have checked all the references I can and cannot find evidence of a maker with this name, though we know of course it has become a surname. The period of the recumbent lion is noted earlier, and the term is on an earlier type blade, on two examples. I think thus far, these two sabres plausibly suggest earlier use as you have observed.....sure would like to hear of other examples or references from others out there too! Thanks for the excellent examples and discussion Dmitry!!!! All the best, Jim

2nd September 2010, 07:39 PM	#3
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I've asked some German collectors on the origins of 'Eisenhauer', so far no-one could give a definite answer, but the general agreement for the appearance of the term is still the mid-1800s, which [again] leads me do believe that it was a marketing logo. I'll keep looking. I am sure the answer is out there, but unfortunately I don't speak or understand a word of German. I've also ordered "The Arms and Armour of Arabia". Thanks for the tip, Jim!

4th September 2010, 03:48 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	I dont think there is any doubt that the use of the term was a marketing gimmick in the mid 19th century, I've seen the term emblazoned on a banner type marking on blades before and of that period. What I'd like to discover is the source and vintage of this term/concept. In England Samuel Harvey used the venerable old 'running fox' in the mid 18th century, when its use by German makers had ceased in the previous century. Im glad you ordered "Arms and Armour of Arabia", its a fantastic reference and though the title seems restricted, Elgood's books never are. The footnotes carry important references and clues that seem to apply in an incredibly wide scope of topics. All the best, Jim

19th September 2010, 10:58 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Dmitry and Jim, Being a German native speaker, I have tried my best to do research on the term Eisenhauer because it doubtlessly is German. After leafing thru some 15th and 16th century sources it first seemed to go back to the diggers in the iron mines who dug the iron strands out of the rock. From the 16th century onwards, though, it seems to have been used not only for blade smiths but synonymous of nearly all weapon smiths. By that time, too, it had developed into a common familly name many of which stem from the kind of the former craft of the guy given. Another simlilar name is Eisenmenger (iron mingler), which seems to refer more strictly to the smiths who mixed various sorts of iron in order to get optimum quality steel. Of course, President Dwight D. Eisenhower had, among others, German ancestors. I have not been able to trace back the family name Eisenhauer to a manufacturer of blades but in all probability there must have been somebody with that name the quality of whose blades became synonymous of good blades in general and, in consequence, was often copied by other bladesmiths - just like the Passau or Solingen wolf marks. Hoping to have been helpful, best, Michael

25th September 2010, 05:46 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Checking 'Babelfish' I have found that 'Eisenhauer' does not directly translate. Checking 'eisen' and 'hauer', as seperate words gives iron and hauer (ie no translated word) However, eisen and haue ( I removed the 'r') is iron strike, this ties in neatly with Michael's post......afterall couldn't a blade/blacksmith be discribed as an 'iron striker'. Perhaps the term is not to do with the quality of the steel...but the quality of the blades's manufacture ?? Regards David