Help with Identification please

Rick · 27th August 2010, 03:32 AM

No solvents ?
I have a Sumatran/Bugis blade that I cannot get free of oil; no matter what I do to it, including acetone .
I have used everything ; and still it smells of scented oil !!
If it still smells of oil; then it is not degreased; no ?

Sorry to digress ......

A. G. Maisey · 27th August 2010, 04:15 AM

No mate.

If the ferric material is porous the oil penetrates down into the body of the blade. You'll never get rid of the smell.

You could wash a blade off with turps, I suppose, acetone tends to dry a bit too quickly for my liking, but all I ever use is dishwash --- when I think its necessary

I've got blades that I've stripped and stained and oiled with kenongo/cendono, and then I come back 12 months later and they still smell of the oil that was on them before I cleaned them up.

I suggest you ignore the smell. Just give it a scrub with dishwash and go ahead with the job.

Rick · 28th August 2010, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

No mate.

If the ferric material is porous the oil penetrates down into the body of the blade. You'll never get rid of the smell.

You could wash a blade off with turps, I suppose, acetone tends to dry a bit too quickly for my liking, but all I ever use is dishwash --- when I think its necessary

I've got blades that I've stripped and stained and oiled with kenongo/cendono, and then I come back 12 months later and they still smell of the oil that was on them before I cleaned them up.

I suggest you ignore the smell. Just give it a scrub with dishwash and go ahead with the job.

Yep, that is just what I did Alan; I was amazed at the persistence of the smell through all that preliminary stuff .

I think David had a go at that blade if I recall .

A. G. Maisey · 28th August 2010, 04:18 AM

My response is interpolated:-

Interesting posts.
I have at my disposal (listed in ease of obtainability in NZ):

pineapple syrup (canned pineapple slices in syrup)
YOU CAN FORGET THIS.
WHAT YOU NEED IS PINEAPPLE JUICE.I'M IN AUSTRALIA AND I USE GOLDEN CIRCLE, WHICH USED TO EXPORT TO NZ.GOLDEN CIRCLE IS NOW OWNED BY HIENZ FOODS A US COMPANY, YOU MIGHT LIKE TO RING THEM AND ASK IF PINEAPPLE JUICE IS AVAILABLE IN NZ

malt and white vinegar
CHEAPEST WHITE VINEGAR IS OK.
IF ITS A BIT TOO ACIDIC, WHICH YOU CAN GAUGE BY THE SPEED WITH WHICH IT REMOVES RUST, YOU CAN ADD A BIT OF WATER TO DILUTE IT

cooking tamarind solution
NEVER USED IT ON KERIS
BUT ITS ACIDIC AND WOULD WORK AS WOULD ANY OTHER MILDLY ACIDIC LIQUID
I HAVE USED PINEAPPLE JUICE FOR YEARS AND I LIKE IT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LONG YOU LEAVE THE BLADE IN THE J8ICE YOU WILL NEVER DAMAGE IT.

methylated spirits (denatured alcohol)
METHO IS NOT A REAL GOOD DEGREASER
YOU SHOULD ALSO BE ABLE TO BUY MINERAL TURPENTINE (TURPS) ITS PRETTY HARD TO PAINT WITH ENAMELS IF DON'T HAVE TURPS.
BUT AS I'VE ALREADY SAID:- ALL YOU REALLY NEED IS DISHWASH, AND YOU CAN GET THAT ANYWHERE

kerosene
FORGET KERO

isopropyl alcohol (70% solution)
NEVER HEARD OF IT

I feel a potential project coming on. I'll have a look for posts on cleaning and depending on availability of time try and use from the above ingredients to clean up the blade.
Any pointers greatly appreciated.
THIS SUBJECT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED MANY TIMES IN THIS FORUM
ITS A DEAD SIMPLE JOB AND ONLY NEEDS DEAD SIMPLE MATERIALS AND PROCEDURES.

A. G. Maisey · 28th August 2010, 04:20 AM

It came up OK didn't it Rick?

A. G. Maisey · 28th August 2010, 06:10 AM

This is a pic of a Bali blade that has been in pineapple juice for about a week. It has been taken out most days and scrubbed with an old toothbrush, the hard bits of rust have been picked off with an old file ground to a point, it has been scrubbed with sink cleaner, steel wool, and a scotchbrite pad.

The pic was taken today after it had been removed from the pineapple juice and just rinsed off with water.

As you can see, the pamor has started to come up, and for some people this would be an adequate finish. I will give it a couple more days of soaking, then I'll hit with lime juice and arsenic, and the end result will be that the ferric material will be a lot darker, however, if you don't like handling arsenic, or cannot obtain it, this finish would be a whole lot better than the red-rust all-over finish it had before I started.

Ignore the blade shape, its distorted because I took it at an angle so the pamor could be seen.

Rick · 28th August 2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

It came up OK didn't it Rick?

Hi Alan,
There wasn't much contrast to begin with; but yes, it did come up a bit .

imas560 · 30th August 2010, 01:14 AM

Out shopping today and found the following on special.

kulbuntet · 27th August 2010, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

No solvents ?
I have a Sumatran/Bugis blade that I cannot get free of oil; no matter what I do to it, including acetone .
I have used everything ; and still it smells of scented oil !!
If it still smells of oil; then it is not degreased; no ?

Iff you realy want to do the job as good as it can get, dont use acetone beter use apolar(non polar) solvents, like hexane, petrolether, toluene and so on. Also you can "cook"or boil the blade in water and let it cool down... afther that lot of dirt wil come out of the pores of the blade. But do reconsider about the state of the blade before you try to do this. Also NaOH (sodium hydroxide) can be used to degrease or break oil or fat like dirt on the blade.

regards Ab

A. G. Maisey · 27th August 2010, 08:28 AM

Highly technical Kulbuntet, and highly unnecessary.

I've been doing this now for a very long time, I have never had a failure --- I mean not ever, not even one time --- and all I've ever done is as I've just told it.

I do vary things a bit sometimes, depending on the blade. If its really heavily rusted I use vinegar first until the bulk of the rust is off. This saves money, because vinegar is much cheaper than pineapple juice.Vinegar is a bit quicker than pineapple juice too.

If a blade obviously doesn't have any oil on it, I don't wash it at all.

Cleaning and staining a blade is not rocket science, it takes just a little bit of knowledge and just a little bit of experience to produce a pretty decent job.You don't need to get all technical, things will work out anyway, if you just let them.

imas560 · 28th August 2010, 02:30 AM

Interesting posts.
I have at my disposal (listed in ease of obtainability in NZ):
pineapple syrup (canned pineapple slices in syrup)
malt and white vinegar
cooking tamarind solution
methylated spirits (denatured alcohol)
kerosene
isopropyl alcohol (70% solution)
I feel a potential project coming on. I'll have a look for posts on cleaning and depending on availability of time try and use from the above ingredients to clean up the blade.
Any pointers greatly appreciated.
thanks

kai · 30th August 2010, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imas560

I have at my disposal (listed in ease of obtainability in NZ):

Look at the corner for exotic fruit juice in large supermarkets (most likely available in tetrapacks). However, make sure to get pure juice rather than diluted stuff with added sugar, etc. (100% juice from concentrate is ok IME.)

This juice still contains a lot of fruit particles but can be utilized as is for cleaning purposes. Filtering doesn't work - if you let a pack stand for a long time, you can decant maybe 2/3 of the volume as reasonably clear juice. I'm not convinced that this extra effort really helps the arsenic restaining though...

Regards,
Kai

28th August 2010, 06:10 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	This is a pic of a Bali blade that has been in pineapple juice for about a week. It has been taken out most days and scrubbed with an old toothbrush, the hard bits of rust have been picked off with an old file ground to a point, it has been scrubbed with sink cleaner, steel wool, and a scotchbrite pad. The pic was taken today after it had been removed from the pineapple juice and just rinsed off with water. As you can see, the pamor has started to come up, and for some people this would be an adequate finish. I will give it a couple more days of soaking, then I'll hit with lime juice and arsenic, and the end result will be that the ferric material will be a lot darker, however, if you don't like handling arsenic, or cannot obtain it, this finish would be a whole lot better than the red-rust all-over finish it had before I started. Ignore the blade shape, its distorted because I took it at an angle so the pamor could be seen. Attached Images

27th August 2010, 03:32 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	No solvents ? I have a Sumatran/Bugis blade that I cannot get free of oil; no matter what I do to it, including acetone . I have used everything ; and still it smells of scented oil !! If it still smells of oil; then it is not degreased; no ? Sorry to digress ......

27th August 2010, 04:15 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	No mate. If the ferric material is porous the oil penetrates down into the body of the blade. You'll never get rid of the smell. You could wash a blade off with turps, I suppose, acetone tends to dry a bit too quickly for my liking, but all I ever use is dishwash --- when I think its necessary I've got blades that I've stripped and stained and oiled with kenongo/cendono, and then I come back 12 months later and they still smell of the oil that was on them before I cleaned them up. I suggest you ignore the smell. Just give it a scrub with dishwash and go ahead with the job.

28th August 2010, 04:18 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	My response is interpolated:- Interesting posts. I have at my disposal (listed in ease of obtainability in NZ): pineapple syrup (canned pineapple slices in syrup) YOU CAN FORGET THIS. WHAT YOU NEED IS PINEAPPLE JUICE.I'M IN AUSTRALIA AND I USE GOLDEN CIRCLE, WHICH USED TO EXPORT TO NZ.GOLDEN CIRCLE IS NOW OWNED BY HIENZ FOODS A US COMPANY, YOU MIGHT LIKE TO RING THEM AND ASK IF PINEAPPLE JUICE IS AVAILABLE IN NZ malt and white vinegar CHEAPEST WHITE VINEGAR IS OK. IF ITS A BIT TOO ACIDIC, WHICH YOU CAN GAUGE BY THE SPEED WITH WHICH IT REMOVES RUST, YOU CAN ADD A BIT OF WATER TO DILUTE IT cooking tamarind solution NEVER USED IT ON KERIS BUT ITS ACIDIC AND WOULD WORK AS WOULD ANY OTHER MILDLY ACIDIC LIQUID I HAVE USED PINEAPPLE JUICE FOR YEARS AND I LIKE IT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LONG YOU LEAVE THE BLADE IN THE J8ICE YOU WILL NEVER DAMAGE IT. methylated spirits (denatured alcohol) METHO IS NOT A REAL GOOD DEGREASER YOU SHOULD ALSO BE ABLE TO BUY MINERAL TURPENTINE (TURPS) ITS PRETTY HARD TO PAINT WITH ENAMELS IF DON'T HAVE TURPS. BUT AS I'VE ALREADY SAID:- ALL YOU REALLY NEED IS DISHWASH, AND YOU CAN GET THAT ANYWHERE kerosene FORGET KERO isopropyl alcohol (70% solution) NEVER HEARD OF IT I feel a potential project coming on. I'll have a look for posts on cleaning and depending on availability of time try and use from the above ingredients to clean up the blade. Any pointers greatly appreciated. THIS SUBJECT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED MANY TIMES IN THIS FORUM ITS A DEAD SIMPLE JOB AND ONLY NEEDS DEAD SIMPLE MATERIALS AND PROCEDURES.

28th August 2010, 04:20 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	It came up OK didn't it Rick?

30th August 2010, 01:14 AM	#8
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Out shopping today and found the following on special.

27th August 2010, 08:28 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Highly technical Kulbuntet, and highly unnecessary. I've been doing this now for a very long time, I have never had a failure --- I mean not ever, not even one time --- and all I've ever done is as I've just told it. I do vary things a bit sometimes, depending on the blade. If its really heavily rusted I use vinegar first until the bulk of the rust is off. This saves money, because vinegar is much cheaper than pineapple juice.Vinegar is a bit quicker than pineapple juice too. If a blade obviously doesn't have any oil on it, I don't wash it at all. Cleaning and staining a blade is not rocket science, it takes just a little bit of knowledge and just a little bit of experience to produce a pretty decent job.You don't need to get all technical, things will work out anyway, if you just let them.

28th August 2010, 02:30 AM	#11
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Interesting posts. I have at my disposal (listed in ease of obtainability in NZ): pineapple syrup (canned pineapple slices in syrup) malt and white vinegar cooking tamarind solution methylated spirits (denatured alcohol) kerosene isopropyl alcohol (70% solution) I feel a potential project coming on. I'll have a look for posts on cleaning and depending on availability of time try and use from the above ingredients to clean up the blade. Any pointers greatly appreciated. thanks