1796 L.C. Officers Sword.

[Norman McCormick]

Some blade detail.

[Jim McDougall]

Absolutely breathtaking Norman!!! Outstanding notes on the faceting as well, and as you note, this distinct feature would identify Osborn even without markings.
I once had a light cavalry officers sabre which had the same type faceting and comma type ears on the grip, but was not marked, so would have likely been Osborn. Interestingly it did have the Royal coat of arms, which you will note has the triple fluer de lis in the upper right quadrant. This was the pre 1801 coat of arms, as the fluer de lis was obviously discontinued at the outset of the Napoleonic wars.

Thank you for sharing this!!!

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jim,
Once again many thanks for your input.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Ian Knight]

Hello Norman,
An interesting P1796. I have a very similar Osborn made sabre.

Do you think that the knicks to the blade are more likely caused by abuse rather than action on the battlefield? There seems to be many and they appear to be quite shallow.
I have seen a number of swords which were used at Waterloo and the damage to the blades was quite different. i.e. Few but deep knicks.

Ian

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Ian,
Thanks for your interest. With regard to the damage you may well be right. The nicks are located all along the blade the deepest being at the hilt end. The muck and rust was consistent throughout including in the nicks, however the abuse could have been perpetrated when the sword was in a reasonable condition and before it was dumped in a garage and left to rot. There was another sword associated with this one i.e. in a similar state from the same garage. Although the type was of little interest to me I did check this blade for damage the assumption being that 'little boys and big boys' like to spar with swords 'like they do in the movies'. There was no blade damage to this second sword so I reckoned these two had not been 'played with' at least not with each other. I have not handled many provenanced battlefield swords so I cannot honestly say whether the damage to this sword is definitely from use or abuse. This dubiety puts me in a bit of a quandary, restore or not? If the damage is contemporary with its working life I would leave well alone if not the temptation is there to replace the guard and find a scabbard? I would be interested in Forum members thinking on the 'use or abuse' and the 'restore or not' questions. Ian you mentioned that you have a similar sword, any chance of a few photographs?
My Regards,
Norman.

[Ian Knight]

Hello Norman,
To have the sabre professionally restored would cost a lot of money, probably into three figures.
You could restore it youself however by sourcing the parts, disassembling the sabre and fitting the new parts. You should be able to use the knucklebow from any P1796 Officer's sabre as this doesn't have the faceted finish used on the backpiece and ferrule.
If you do consider the sabre to have sustained the damage in 'action' I would remove any corrosion, protect the sword using Renaissance Wax and leave as is.
My P1796 officer's sabre.

Ian

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Ian,
Thanks for posting your sabre, a very nice example. As regards restoration it's one of those things 'do you or don't you'? In this case I think the damage I would cause to the peened tang and the 'ear' rivet in disassembly is not worth the aesthetics of a replacement guard. I will call it 'old' damage as it certainly hasn't been done in recent times and be satisfied with that. If a scabbard happens to come along at some time I don't see a problem with a marriage, mismatches re swords and scabbards seem the norm rather than the exception anyway. If you happen to know of a lonely scabbard you know where to get me.
My Regards.
Norman.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Ian Knight

Hello Norman,
An interesting P1796. I have a very similar Osborn made sabre.

Do you think that the knicks to the blade are more likely caused by abuse rather than action on the battlefield? There seems to be many and they appear to be quite shallow.
I have seen a number of swords which were used at Waterloo and the damage to the blades was quite different. i.e. Few but deep knicks.

Ian

Interesting observation Ian, and something I had never really thought about. However, I have a few swords with definite Waterloo or other battle provenance and these would certainly bear out what you are saying, i.e. a few but quite deep nicks.

Richard

Top : Sword of Lt Chatterton, 12LD, carried at Vittoria, Salamanca, Quatre Bras and Waterloo
Bottom: 16th LD officer's sword, almost certainly at Waterloo

[Ian Knight]

Originally Posted by Richard

Interesting observation Ian, and something I had never really thought about. However, I have a few swords with definite Waterloo or other battle provenance and these would certainly bear out what you are saying, i.e. a few but quite deep nicks.

Richard

Top : Sword of Lt Chatterton, 12LD, carried at Vittoria, Salamanca, Quatre Bras and Waterloo
Bottom: 16th LD officer's sword, almost certainly at Waterloo

I really love those sabres Richard.
I have always believed from reading about first hand accounts from the period that cavalry engagements would be short but very violent affairs. In the mayhem of a cavalry engagement one or two blows would have been the maximum possible. Perhaps a parry and one or two cuts at an opponent.
One only has to read the various Scots Greys accounts from the Battle of Waterloo to have a good understanding of a cavalry action.
When a trooper was attemping to kill an opponent he would use his sabre with all of his force. Trooper's would often stand in their stirrups to give their blow more force. If the opponent were lucky enough to parry the blow this would leave a very deep notch in the blade as in the lower of Richards two sabres. Many blows would also hit the opponents blade at an angle showing the impact and removing a slither of metal. I own a French 1810 dated Cuirassier's sabre with it's original scabbard and hatchet pointed blade. This sword blade shows such an impact near the hilt. See photos below.
In action notches to the blade would vary from the point of the blade up to and including the hilt.
I am convinced that much of the damage that I see to swords at auction is caused not by military engagements but merely from abuse by more recent owners enacting scenes from their favourite movies or just play acting. These knicks are very distintive: Very many shallow cuts and nicks on the lower half of the blade away from where the hand would be grasping the sword.
Obviously, sword blades can also show deep cuts from being used in action and the more shallow cuts from sword abuse.

Ian

[Jim McDougall]

Great observations Ian!! and I think that would be a great topic for a thread on 'sword forensics'.....examination and assessment of combat damage vs. unrelated inflictions of the blades of edged weapons.

It is true that real sword combat, in addition to perhaps virtually all forms of combat, whether embellished in literature, narrative or movies, is far from these depictions. Actually even duels etc. were typically brief actions with a series of rapid and quickly ended moves, interspersed with long positioning, guaging and deliberate movements....far from the swashbuckling, constant clanging of blade against blade. In actual use, energy is quickly spent, though in actual combat, fear, anger and adrenalin propel the combatants far beyond normal limitations. It is really impossible to guage the intensity of the blows struck, or random results of such violent interaction, and the kind of glancing damage seen on Ians posted French blade is a great example.

It is hard to imagine protocol, regulation or procedural adherence in the maelstrom of chaos that must have exploded in these horrific events, but I recall one instance that I believe was recounted from the Charge of the Light Brigade. A wounded British cavalry trooper engaging a Russian cavalryman in the melee following contact in the charge, was later complaining about the engagement claiming that he had used a cut so and so in attack, expecting a responding cut in accordance to protocol, but complained the fool responded with the inappropriate cut in accord, and knocked him off his horse.
Clearly the trooper was referring to the "Rules and Regulations for the Sword Exercise of Cavalry" (1796) written by LeMarchant and authorized by George III............it seems it must have been uttered humorously, as obviously the Russians could not have been expected to follow such rules. Just the same, it is interesting to see how sanely and rationally prescribed rules cannot possibly be part of the relative and incidental insanity experienced in the horrors of this kind of combat, regardless of training and expectation.

It is fascinating to see the history that unfolds as we examine a cavalry sabre tossed unceremoniously into a garage, and left for years. It is a shame that the public at large typically does not realize that historic items are not just in museums or in books, but in staggering numbers exist in these very circumstances. It is heartening to see another of these old warriors saved from obscurity.....thank you Norman!!!!! and thanks for the fantastic discussion here guys!!!

All the best,
Jim

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

this distinct feature would identify Osborn even without markings.

Jim,

I don't think comma ears and facetted backpiece and ferrule always mean Osborn. I think this design detail certainly originated with Osborn but later on many other makers copied the design. Actually, I'm wondering if Ian's sword is an Osborn as there is no indication of a name on the blade (that I can see)even though it is absolutely in Osborn's style?

Richard

[Ian Knight]

Originally Posted by Richard

Jim,

I don't think comma ears and facetted backpiece and ferrule always mean Osborn. I think this design detail certainly originated with Osborn but later on many other makers copied the design. Actually, I'm wondering if Ian's sword is an Osborn as there is no indication of a name on the blade (that I can see)even though it is absolutely in Osborn's style?

Richard

Hello Richard,
The blade is marked 'Osborn Warranted' on the back of the blade close to the hilt. The Osborn part of the inscription has lost its gilding and is hard to photograph.

Ian