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Old 7th August 2010, 07:51 PM   #1
Matchlock
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Default Automatically Opening Pan Covers on German Matchlocks, ca. 1560-1650

I owe the inspiration to write this thread to our member Philip.


This feature is extremley rare to find on German military matchlock muskets, and all those pieces are equipped with a matchlock mechanism the lock plate of which has the shape of a wheel-lock.

Obviously, the autmatically opening pan cover has been taken over from the wheel-lock; in some cases it even appears on matchlock mechanisms which actually are pretending to be wheel-locks and are only identifiable as matchlocks at second sight.

The earliest known sample is in my collection. Its is the first illustrated below, clearly pretending to be a wheel-lock and made in ca. 1560, most probably in Augsburg. It's a snap matclock. The pan cover has to be shut manually, then the serpentine with a length of matchcord is cocked and when the trigger is pulled it snaps down into the pan, simultaneously opening the cover. Even the safety catch is the same as on wheel-locks.
I posted it here before.

The next sample is only known from Suhl matchlocks of ca. 1590 to 1620. This heavy wallgun (Lunten-Hakenbüchse) is dated 1592 on the barrel and struck with Suhl marks on both barrel and lockplate.
A very similar Suhl mechanism, ca. 1610, is illustrated in detail below.

Next there is a similar but somewhat later piece, Suhl, ca. 1620-25; it was sold Christies in 2000, from the Keith W. Neal collection. The position of the serpentine is a working time alteration; originally it would have rested on the right side nail the hole of which is visible.

At the bottom, a matchlock musket, ca. 1650, that I photographed in the reserve collection of the fortress of Hohensalzburg more than 20 years ago.

Best, Michael
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Last edited by Matchlock : 8th August 2010 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 11th August 2010, 12:35 PM   #2
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Hello, Matchlock

Pardon invoking the translator, but I can not write English.
On the first key (lock), could not be a key (lock) wheel (wheeellock), transformed by X key reasons wick (matchlock)?
If this was a key (lock) wheel (wheeellock) and we remove some elements and introduce other individual, would like what we have now.
I have not had my hands on the piece, I can not see all the changes that would, and I can only think of the photos you've uploaded to the forum, but I note two things:
Lever (lever) of the cover-pan (pan-cover) has the same shape of the cam (lever) of a key (lock) wheel (wheellock), with a party that expands to close to the axis of the wheel for your crank (spindle) the move.
His spring (spring), that key (lock) wheel (wheellock) acted on its lower lobe, from the bottom up, to keep the cover-bowl (cover-bread) always closed (except when the wheel starts to spin ) has been moved to act top-down over the top, so that tends to keep the cup-cover (cover-bread) always open, unless you close it manually and lock the sear (sear).
One question: I do not see the spring (spring) would keep the sear (sear) against the inside of the plate (plate), keeping the sear (sear) against the inside of the plate (plate) maintaining cover-dolly ( Cover-pan) closed, and its enclosure at the front peeking out of the stage (plate) and serving to stop the movement of the coil.
Affectionately from Argentina. Fernando Keilty
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Old 11th August 2010, 02:55 PM   #3
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Fernando K's post translation may not be fully efective.
I will PM him, to remind the convenience to also post the original text, to provide some support to the translation.
Maybe, in the context, some editing touch ups can be made to the english text.
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Old 12th August 2010, 06:44 PM   #4
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Red face Fernando K post #2 original text ... and a atempt to a better translation

Hello, Matchlock
You will pardon me for using the translator resource, but I can not write in English.
On the first lock, could it not be a wheel lock, transformed by X key reasons into a matchlock?
If this was a wheel lock and we remove some elements and introduce distinct ones, it would become what we have now.
I have not had my hands on the piece, I can not apreciate all the transformations and I can only judge by the photos you've uploaded to the forum, but I note two things:
The lever of the pan-cover has the same shape of a wheel lock lever, with a part that expands to approach to the axis of the wheel, to allow its crank to move it.
Its spring, which on a wheel lock lever acted on its lower lobe, from the bottom to top, to keep the pan cover always closed (except when the wheel starts to spin ) has been moved to act on the lobe upper part, from top to bottom, so that it tends to keep the cover-pan always open, unless you close it manually and make it lock with the sear.
One question: I do not see the spring that would keep the sear against the plate interior face, keeping the cover pan closed, its front part appendix appearing out of the plate, to provide the retention of the serpentine movement.
Affectionately from Argentina. Fernando Keilty

Hola, Matchlock
Perdonarás que recurra al traductor, pero no puedo escribir en inglés.
Respecto a la primera llave ¿no podría ser una llave de rueda, transformada por X razones en llave de mecha?
Si esta fué una llave de rueda y le quitamos algunos elementos e introducimos otros distintos, quedaría como lo que ahora tenemos. Yo no he tenido en mis manos la pieza, no puiedo observar las transformaciones, y solo puedo opinar por las fotografías que has subido al foro, pero hago natar simplemente dos cosas:
La leva del cubrecazoleta tiene la misma configuración de la leva de una llave de rueda, con una parte que se ensancha para acercarse al eje de la rueda para que su cigueñal la mueva.
Su resorte, que en la leva de una llave de rueda, actuaba sobre su lóbulo inferior, de abajo-arriba para mantener el cubrecazoleta siempre cerrado (salvo cuando la rueda comience a girar) ha sido movido para que actúe sobre la parte superior del lóbulo, ae arriba-abajo, de manera que tienda a mantener el cubrecazoleta siempre abierto, salvo que se lo cierre manualmente y se lo haga enganchar con el fiador.

Una pregunta: No veo al resorte que mantendría al fiador contra la cara interior de la platina, manteniendo al cubrecazoleta cerrado, y su apéndice de la parte delantera asomándose afuera de la platina y sirviendo para detener el movimiento del serpentín.

Afectuosamente desde Argentina Fernando Keilty
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Old 6th December 2010, 06:54 AM   #5
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I greet you all!
My name is Benny and I live in Poland.

I hope I have understood that the matchlock mechanism.
For the first time I encounter this type, it is interesting.

I greet the Polish

Bolek

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Old 6th December 2010, 02:43 PM   #6
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Perfecty understood, Benny,

And welcome here!

Michael
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Old 6th December 2010, 02:56 PM   #7
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Welcome to the forum, Benny .
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Old 6th December 2010, 03:12 PM   #8
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I am interested in the trigger system.


Is that how it looks?

I present my way of thinking.

I ask you if you correct me I'm wrong

Greetings

Bolek



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Old 6th December 2010, 03:36 PM   #9
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Hi you guys!

It turns out you sincerely, you have great knowledge. I'm glad I'm with you!

Greetings!

Bolek
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Old 7th December 2010, 08:49 PM   #10
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Hello Bolek

I do not know if I am included in your message, but I salute you.

I believe this is a wheel-lock (Whelan-lock) converted into staple key (matchlock) and thus find a mechanism that fires had to adapt.

I think missing the spring (spring).

Affectionately. Fernando
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Old 7th December 2010, 10:43 PM   #11
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Hi Fernando K,

You are right concerning the fact that the trigger and sear mechanism were adopted from a wheel-lock, as well as the general shape of the lock plate, but as I explained this actually is just a matchlock pretending to be a technically higher developed wheel-lock. Please see my post above.

Best,
Michael
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Old 8th December 2010, 07:16 AM   #12
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Hi!
I hope that I truly understand your speech.
I think that from the beginning it was a matchlock mechanism.
Of course, the gunsmith, built this mechanism wheellock board, but just enough.
I think that Michel is right, maybe gunsmith built this mechanism to replace damaged wheellock in existing weapons. Maybe that's why the mechanism is in the shape of the original disc mechanism.
I built (I reconstructs) a number of mechanisms wheellock, matchlock, and SnapLock, and I am on this lockblate mechanism can not see the changes (traces of) modifications. Skoda that the original picture is not very clear.

Greetings

Bolek
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Old 8th December 2010, 04:37 PM   #13
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Hi Bolek,

Sorry but I have to differ.

When reading the whole thread you will see that all pieces illustrated were deliberately built as matchlocks, but roughly on the wheel-lock design, in order to make them look like 'high-tech' to the untrained eye.

Best,
Michael
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Old 8th December 2010, 06:36 PM   #14
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Hi!


I think so! This is the original and purposeful design matchlock.
I will build a replica of this specimen and experiment with the trigger.

Greetings

Bolek
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Old 9th December 2010, 11:20 AM   #15
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Default wheel-lock

Hi all

Sorry for coming to the translator.

I still believe that is a key wheel (wheel-lock) transformed key match (match-lock).

His cam covers bowl (pan-cover) has the same design of the cam wheel wrench (wheel-lock) with a widened to approach the crankshaft (arbor)., So that moved. If a cam built for a key match (match-lock), be satisfied with a simple bar, especially if it is not in sight, as in the other examples that illustrate this theme.

The coil (sepentine) is not hidden, not intended any confusion with the clamp pyrites, and is the only room that is decorated with a deep decoration, imitating scales or something similar.

Affectionately. Fernando

Last edited by fernando : 12th December 2010 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 9th December 2010, 02:31 PM   #16
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Have fun!

m
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Old 10th December 2010, 07:35 AM   #17
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Hi!
fernando K Think one more time.





Warm Greetings

Bolek
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Old 10th December 2010, 06:10 PM   #18
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Sorry, but: no.

I have been closely studying earliest European firearms for more than 30 years and am well able to discern a true wheel-lock from a true matchlock.

Best,
Michael
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Old 10th December 2010, 07:17 PM   #19
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Bplek:

I do not understand. Might be more explicit?

Thanks. Fernando K
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Old 12th December 2010, 12:15 PM   #20
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Hi Bolek,

First of all, I am afraid we're facing a certain language barrier here.
Secondly, I beg your understanding concerning the fact that I cannot repeat all I have been posting on these topics for more than two years.

All I can tell you is that all the functional parts of a characteristic wheel-lock that you marked red actually never existed on this matchlock; there are no traces of the respective screw or rivet holes whatsoever.

May I recommend reading my former posts on both match and wheel-locks?
I hope this will add to a more profound understanding of the matter.

Best,
Michael
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Old 3rd January 2011, 05:55 AM   #21
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Yet this is not the end of the work, a few days I finish work and show 100% effect.
but you can see the full function of the mechanism for snap matchlock


Greetings to all.
Bolek





film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi6bZe5gWAM
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Old 3rd January 2011, 05:46 PM   #22
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Great, Bolek,

You sure did a good job!

I also watched your other videos on youtube on the Dresden puffer and the flintlock pistols - excellent work!

Best,
Michael
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Old 3rd January 2011, 06:21 PM   #23
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Default Matchlock

Thank you very much for posting pictures. Very interesting. Never seen one like this before. Rick.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 07:10 PM   #24
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Thank you!

Returning to the theme mechanism ... drain system is likely to cause a small dust popularity of this mechanism.
An electronic translator is not very precise, do not be so explained his theory will be confusion because again

Greetings to all

Bolek
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Old 11th January 2011, 10:38 PM   #25
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Attached Images
 

Last edited by fernando : 18th June 2011 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Pictures direct upload
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Old 13th January 2011, 07:24 PM   #26
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In this forum, I see some interesting topics for the reconstruction of the area of ignition mechanisms, and I would love to build their reconstruction but needs your help in the form of pictures!
I invite you to the common adventure!

Bolek
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Old 18th June 2011, 05:20 AM   #27
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finally finished the reconstruction of
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Last edited by fernando : 18th June 2011 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 18th June 2011, 06:37 PM   #28
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Well done, Bolek,

Apart from the fact that, from the view of a true arms historian, the rest of the piece represents solid handcraft but both historically and stylistically is more on the fantasy side ...

Best,
Michael
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Old 21st June 2011, 08:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolek
In this forum, I see some interesting topics for the reconstruction of the area of ignition mechanisms, and I would love to build their reconstruction but needs your help in the form of pictures!
I invite you to the common adventure!

Bolek



Hi Bolek,

Taking these pictures is both hard and expensive. I have been trying to do my best here but please allow me to repeat my former idea that our forum really needs to receive good photos of early original guns from Eastern European museums, not of replicas!

These items are on display in almost all castles, also the provincial ones!
That's what good colleagues do anyway - it's a game of give and take.


Best,
Michael
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