Old Kaskara with Celestial Engraving and Etching for Comment

Jim McDougall · 7th August 2010, 12:53 AM

Now thats what I'm talkin about!!!

Beautifully stated and well placed observations Stephen, and never underestimate your own knowledge on these. Obviously you have well captured variances in the key features, and if I may, I admire your modesty. The truth is, there are no real 'experts', and all we do is express what we think or observe, regardless of the ultimate outcome. As most here know, I throw a lot of ideas and perceptions out there fully knowing I may well get blasted...in fact, often I hope I do, as long as better supported data is presented.

David, who is another who I admire for his 'thinking outside the box' approach, has entered in some excellent notes here as well, on the usual application of celestial symbols on European blades, and keyed in on the most compelling anomaly of all on this example.....the etched pentagram in what appears a replacement position in the typical cabbalistic grouping.

This is indeed an old European blade from what I can see, and as you note as well, the pentagram star is etched. This seems almost to fall keenly in place with the well established practice of acid etched thuluth inscriptions. Most of this activity seems to have taken place at Omdurman in the Mahdist period, but certainly the use of the process continued after the Mahdiya.

Along with you and David , I am puzzled by the absence of the sun coupled with the addition of this most unusual element, this pentagram star. Aside from all the inevitable cracks about the occult, what must this symbol have meant to whoever applied it?
You make very important notes on the structural components of the hilt and the thinness of the blade toward to top. As my knowledge on blade modifications is limited and David has noted possible shortening, could the blade root have been the point of shortening, and that end of the blade become thinner from stock removal, also losing the sun image?

I very much appreciate your courtesy in offering to place a slide show on your presentation, and will see what more can be done on that. Speaking for myself, though I am sure for others here as well, I'm very proud to have one of our own members presenting before this extremely prominent society.
Well done!!!

All very best regards,
Jim

7th August 2010, 12:53 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Now thats what I'm talkin about!!! Beautifully stated and well placed observations Stephen, and never underestimate your own knowledge on these. Obviously you have well captured variances in the key features, and if I may, I admire your modesty. The truth is, there are no real 'experts', and all we do is express what we think or observe, regardless of the ultimate outcome. As most here know, I throw a lot of ideas and perceptions out there fully knowing I may well get blasted...in fact, often I hope I do, as long as better supported data is presented. David, who is another who I admire for his 'thinking outside the box' approach, has entered in some excellent notes here as well, on the usual application of celestial symbols on European blades, and keyed in on the most compelling anomaly of all on this example.....the etched pentagram in what appears a replacement position in the typical cabbalistic grouping. This is indeed an old European blade from what I can see, and as you note as well, the pentagram star is etched. This seems almost to fall keenly in place with the well established practice of acid etched thuluth inscriptions. Most of this activity seems to have taken place at Omdurman in the Mahdist period, but certainly the use of the process continued after the Mahdiya. Along with you and David , I am puzzled by the absence of the sun coupled with the addition of this most unusual element, this pentagram star. Aside from all the inevitable cracks about the occult, what must this symbol have meant to whoever applied it? You make very important notes on the structural components of the hilt and the thinness of the blade toward to top. As my knowledge on blade modifications is limited and David has noted possible shortening, could the blade root have been the point of shortening, and that end of the blade become thinner from stock removal, also losing the sun image? I very much appreciate your courtesy in offering to place a slide show on your presentation, and will see what more can be done on that. Speaking for myself, though I am sure for others here as well, I'm very proud to have one of our own members presenting before this extremely prominent society. Well done!!! All very best regards, Jim