Could anybody help with Id of the sword ?

ericlaude · 30th July 2010, 11:17 PM

I think Takouba with free style hilt.

Battara · 31st July 2010, 01:38 AM

My thoughts too.......

Iain · 31st July 2010, 08:42 AM

Hi Martin,

First of all how do you find such things in Prague? :P The only stuff I ever see is beat up military sabres and fake katanas...

This sword I think is not from the Saharan regions. The decorative patterns and geometric shapes remind me very much of Poto or other Congolese area workmanship.

I would agree that the influences of the takouba form are fairly obvious but my best guess would be that this piece from the Congo or perhaps Cameroon?

I'd be interested in the views of those who collect the swords and knives of those areas as the decorative patterns really do remind me strongly of those pieces.

Martin Lubojacky · 31st July 2010, 11:42 AM

Thank you all. Because of the style of the hilt (leather strips) and dots on the crossguard I would also say it is comming from the arid region south of the Sahara (maybe north Cameroon, Chad). I think they did not use such leather strips for handes too much in equatorial regions. But the blade is really strange, and made of strange steel (it is not possible to polish it - it stays always grey or slightly dark, there are visible signs of folding)
(Dear ispn, there are cca 4 shops in Prague, where you can find such stuff, but only seldom, from time to time...)

fernando · 31st July 2010, 06:02 PM

Peculiar blade tip construction ... and with that brass dot

.

Jim McDougall · 31st July 2010, 08:34 PM

At first sight, what is most compelling visually is the distinct takouba like guard, but most puzzling, the fact that it is integrally forged. The mention of the dull gray characteristic of the steel I am wondering if that would be due to high zinc content?

I agree with the observations by ISPN and Martin, this sword has many features associated with tribal weapons from Zaire, and the elliptical features incorporated with the central raised rib in the blade resemble elements that appear in Ngombe weapons from Zaire (Beaute Fatale, p.77). The linear rocker style work that profiles the blade, resembles blade decoration features from Cameroon, as does the wrapped leatherwork, althought obviously the typical arched pommel is not present.

As often the case, a pastiche of influences from these regions in what may have been a court type weapon, probably from Zaire, and likely of latter 19th century. It would not be unreasonable to consider that the takouba was seen in certain degree in Zaire in the 19th century and later, and local artisans would have been influenced by the crossguard feature.

The interesting copper or gold metal filled dot situated in the symbolic ellipse near the blade point seems to perhaps derive from a gold or yellow copper nail hammered into higher quality Yemeni swords from ancient times. As with many, if not most African weapon forms, there is often deep traditional symbolism brought into them. The Arab influences that came into these areas along with the advent of Islam certainly accounts for many of these features, and it would be interesting to learn about this one, which I believe was mentioned in al-Kindi.

Tim Simmons · 31st July 2010, 09:41 PM

Very interesting thing, nice!

I can only think the same, that this is a version of tabouka at its most southerly? What a shame there is no scabbard. I have my doubts about Arab influence. If one thinks the tabouka has a west African origin then the inclusion of copper or brass is not exceptional in fact common even in western north Africa. I am no longer in the camp that believes these forms derive from the East with there largely imported kaskara blades. How many eastern blades in the context of the thread have additions of copper or brass dots or other, even from Arabia and India.

As far as this forum goes my guess would be not many.

31st July 2010, 08:34 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	At first sight, what is most compelling visually is the distinct takouba like guard, but most puzzling, the fact that it is integrally forged. The mention of the dull gray characteristic of the steel I am wondering if that would be due to high zinc content? I agree with the observations by ISPN and Martin, this sword has many features associated with tribal weapons from Zaire, and the elliptical features incorporated with the central raised rib in the blade resemble elements that appear in Ngombe weapons from Zaire (Beaute Fatale, p.77). The linear rocker style work that profiles the blade, resembles blade decoration features from Cameroon, as does the wrapped leatherwork, althought obviously the typical arched pommel is not present. As often the case, a pastiche of influences from these regions in what may have been a court type weapon, probably from Zaire, and likely of latter 19th century. It would not be unreasonable to consider that the takouba was seen in certain degree in Zaire in the 19th century and later, and local artisans would have been influenced by the crossguard feature. The interesting copper or gold metal filled dot situated in the symbolic ellipse near the blade point seems to perhaps derive from a gold or yellow copper nail hammered into higher quality Yemeni swords from ancient times. As with many, if not most African weapon forms, there is often deep traditional symbolism brought into them. The Arab influences that came into these areas along with the advent of Islam certainly accounts for many of these features, and it would be interesting to learn about this one, which I believe was mentioned in al-Kindi. Attached Images

30th July 2010, 11:17 PM	#1
ericlaude Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 187	I think Takouba with free style hilt.

31st July 2010, 01:38 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	My thoughts too.......

31st July 2010, 08:42 AM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	Hi Martin, First of all how do you find such things in Prague? :P The only stuff I ever see is beat up military sabres and fake katanas... This sword I think is not from the Saharan regions. The decorative patterns and geometric shapes remind me very much of Poto or other Congolese area workmanship. I would agree that the influences of the takouba form are fairly obvious but my best guess would be that this piece from the Congo or perhaps Cameroon? I'd be interested in the views of those who collect the swords and knives of those areas as the decorative patterns really do remind me strongly of those pieces.

31st July 2010, 11:42 AM	#4
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Thank you all. Because of the style of the hilt (leather strips) and dots on the crossguard I would also say it is comming from the arid region south of the Sahara (maybe north Cameroon, Chad). I think they did not use such leather strips for handes too much in equatorial regions. But the blade is really strange, and made of strange steel (it is not possible to polish it - it stays always grey or slightly dark, there are visible signs of folding) (Dear ispn, there are cca 4 shops in Prague, where you can find such stuff, but only seldom, from time to time...)

31st July 2010, 06:02 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Peculiar blade tip construction ... and with that brass dot .

31st July 2010, 09:41 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Very interesting thing, nice! I can only think the same, that this is a version of tabouka at its most southerly? What a shame there is no scabbard. I have my doubts about Arab influence. If one thinks the tabouka has a west African origin then the inclusion of copper or brass is not exceptional in fact common even in western north Africa. I am no longer in the camp that believes these forms derive from the East with there largely imported kaskara blades. How many eastern blades in the context of the thread have additions of copper or brass dots or other, even from Arabia and India. As far as this forum goes my guess would be not many.