Unusual Balkan? Dagger

Atlantia · 25th July 2010, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

There's no difference between a knife and a dagger then...

Well, for sure the vast majority of daggers are knives, and some knives are daggers

Dictionary definitions seem fairly similar:
'Short pointed knife: a short pointed knife used as a weapon' (Encarta)
'Stabbing weapon with short pointed and edged blade' (Oxford)

Obviously the item in question IS a knife, but to me it goes without saying that it's a dagger also.
So either designation is technically correct in my view.

Dmitry · 26th July 2010, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Well, for sure the vast majority of daggers are knives, and some knives are daggers

Dictionary definitions seem fairly similar:
'Short pointed knife: a short pointed knife used as a weapon' (Encarta)
'Stabbing weapon with short pointed and edged blade' (Oxford)

Obviously the item in question IS a knife, but to me it goes without saying that it's a dagger also.
So either designation is technically correct in my view.

This "piece" has one cutting edge. Therefore it is a knife, not a dagger.

Atlantia · 26th July 2010, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

This "piece" has one cutting edge. Therefore it is a knife, not a dagger.

Many daggers are single edged, how is that relevant?
If it's purpose is also or solely to be used as a stabbing weapon, then it fits the criteria. Like a Kard, or a Tanto, or a Choora etc.
Also, if you really feel the need to re-open this symantics debate, would you mind starting a thread of your own so as to not derail this one.
I'll be happy to offer my opinion there.

Dmitry · 26th July 2010, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Many daggers are single edged, how is that relevant?

No single-edged daggers come to my mind at the moment.

eftihis · 26th July 2010, 03:33 PM

Hi Kronckew, Greece is of course part of the Balkans, but do not make the assumption that countries and nations that exist in the same geographical area have necessary the same culture and characteristics.
Its like i am saying that US citizens and Mexicans are all "Americans".
Without making a lond speech, i want to say that countries of the Balkans share a common history being inside the same empires (Byzantine, Turkish and some of them Venetian), but there many differences especially when we come in the case of Greece, which being at the end of Balkan peninsula has great influences and a way of life affected by the Mediterranean sea, and by different historical circumstances. Our language is very different from the Slavic that many neigbors share, and also our culture and history.
So not all Greek things fit in the Balkan family, and not all Balkan things relate to Greece.

kronckew · 26th July 2010, 05:08 PM

of course the different countries and regions in the balkans have differing customs, artefacts and cultural histories some of which some areas share with others and some that are not. that's why they have different countries, languages, etc., even the names and sovereignty of some areas are disputed, but geographically they are all balkan, which is what i referred to. any current political differences are not germane to these older artefacts. some of the names we call the areas by may not have even existed at the time the topic's knife was made.

the knives of the whole area do seem, at least to my untutored eyes, to have certain similarities in basic shape, eared grips, etc and even in more details, that would not be found in south east asia. most of the area from istanbul to vienna was trod by the turkish armies at one point or another, and their edged weapons do seem to have affected local design standards, tho somewhat softened by the local non-turkish cultures...

ah, well, i think i'll head downstairs and sharpen my qama, and my texan bowie, it's american (maybe mexican, maybe US).

p.s. - don't forget the canadians, they are americans too!

eftihis · 26th July 2010, 06:23 PM

Dear kronckew,
Thanks for accomodating our sensitivities!
I agree with all that you say, and indeed we share common designs because of common Turkish occupation.
And we fought in our war of revolution with Turkish weapons, just as Afgans fought Russians with AK-47.
The whole isssue comes from the fact that we Greeks feel that we have a lot of differences with our Balkan neighbors, and so we just dont like to be included in one group together with them, without first clarifying our differences!!!

26th July 2010, 03:33 PM	#5
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 512	Hi Kronckew, Greece is of course part of the Balkans, but do not make the assumption that countries and nations that exist in the same geographical area have necessary the same culture and characteristics. Its like i am saying that US citizens and Mexicans are all "Americans". Without making a lond speech, i want to say that countries of the Balkans share a common history being inside the same empires (Byzantine, Turkish and some of them Venetian), but there many differences especially when we come in the case of Greece, which being at the end of Balkan peninsula has great influences and a way of life affected by the Mediterranean sea, and by different historical circumstances. Our language is very different from the Slavic that many neigbors share, and also our culture and history. So not all Greek things fit in the Balkan family, and not all Balkan things relate to Greece.

26th July 2010, 05:08 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,259	of course the different countries and regions in the balkans have differing customs, artefacts and cultural histories some of which some areas share with others and some that are not. that's why they have different countries, languages, etc., even the names and sovereignty of some areas are disputed, but geographically they are all balkan, which is what i referred to. any current political differences are not germane to these older artefacts. some of the names we call the areas by may not have even existed at the time the topic's knife was made. the knives of the whole area do seem, at least to my untutored eyes, to have certain similarities in basic shape, eared grips, etc and even in more details, that would not be found in south east asia. most of the area from istanbul to vienna was trod by the turkish armies at one point or another, and their edged weapons do seem to have affected local design standards, tho somewhat softened by the local non-turkish cultures... ah, well, i think i'll head downstairs and sharpen my qama, and my texan bowie, it's american (maybe mexican, maybe US). p.s. - don't forget the canadians, they are americans too!

26th July 2010, 06:23 PM	#7
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 512	Dear kronckew, Thanks for accomodating our sensitivities! I agree with all that you say, and indeed we share common designs because of common Turkish occupation. And we fought in our war of revolution with Turkish weapons, just as Afgans fought Russians with AK-47. The whole isssue comes from the fact that we Greeks feel that we have a lot of differences with our Balkan neighbors, and so we just dont like to be included in one group together with them, without first clarifying our differences!!!