Moro: Kalis Seko with old restoration!

[tunggulametung]

Hello, congrats for your new find!

I think I've seen similar crosspiece restoration the other day on one of internet auction site but the rattan wrap is horizontal-to keep both halves of the crosspiece together.

I think I see two smaller holes on the first, second and last picture, that ones on the meeting point of the cross piece and the bottom of the taguban. If that is right, it might be similar way with the technique found in older Javanese scabbard/I also found it once on Bugis sheath. They inserted two wooden pin each sides to join the crosspiece with the vertical part. This way it is very pronounce to movement along with wear/time and no wonder it cracked (mostly I've seen using this technique are already movable, crack or broken)

In case you decided to change the crosspiece, I think the (good quality) material is still obtainable in Malaysia ask for kayu kemuning (orange jasmine?) as the local name. Or maybe replacing (patching) the missing piece is another option. On the first choice, you can always keep the original crosspiece. But keeping it as it is now would be as good.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

but the rattan wrap is horizontal-to keep both halves of the crosspiece together.

Yep that is correct. But the rope that is attached at the crosspiece is also knotted at the ratan. When looking at the patina these ratan wrap had also been at the tip of the scabbard, but it is lost. That is something I will replace in future to make it a more firm scabbard instead of two loose pieces...

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

I think I see two smaller holes on the first, second and last picture, that ones on the meeting point of the cross piece and the bottom of the taguban. If that is right, it might be similar way with the technique found in older Javanese scabbard/I also found it once on Bugis sheath. They inserted two wooden pin each sides to join the crosspiece with the vertical part. This way it is very pronounce to movement along with wear/time and no wonder it cracked (mostly I've seen using this technique are already movable, crack or broken).

Yes I noticed those holes also. It could be as you said, but it also could be that this was a first (failed) try to attach the crosspiece to the vertically part of the scabbard, because it was broken at the other side (where the biggest part is missing).....Maybe somebody on the forum can tell us if the moro's used these kind of pegs to attach the crosspiece to the second wooden part...

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

In case you decided to change the crosspiece, I think the (good quality) material is still obtainable in Malaysia ask for kayu kemuning (orange jasmine?) as the local name. Or maybe replacing (patching) the missing piece is another option. On the first choice, you can always keep the original crosspiece. But keeping it as it is now would be as good.

Thank you for your information, but changing the crosspiece is no option to me..I think also patching is not what i am going to do. Maybe I use some ratan to hide it or some moro fabric, cause I like the restoration and the old patina which I don't want to interfere with....Than it can always be taken away to see how it came along.. (yes I know, I am a weird collector when it comes to restorations)

Kind Regards,
Maurice

[Rick]

Could we please see the blade, Maurice ?

I also have a Jawa wrongko, old; that is attached to the gandar with wood pins .

If the two strings were made taut, then wrapped tightly with rattan right over the joint and up onto the crosspiece; the pressure would draw the two pieces firmly together; IMO .

Almost like Baca baca .

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Rick

Could we please see the blade, Maurice ?

Rick, here an image of the gangya part. Unfortunately this is the only image of the blade I have available at the moment.

Originally Posted by Rick

If the two strings were made taut, then wrapped tightly with rattan right over the joint and up onto the crosspiece; the pressure would draw the two pieces firmly together; IMO .

Almost like Baca baca .

It is not as tightly wrapped as it might look.
It is probably done latter, a long time after the actual crosspiece broke off considering the patina (it might be restored like it was the first time?)
If the restoration is moro or not, I have no idea..

[kai]

Hello Maurice,

Yes I noticed those holes also. It could be as you said, but it also could be that this was a first (failed) try to attach the crosspiece to the vertically part of the scabbard, because it was broken at the other side (where the biggest part is missing).....Maybe somebody on the forum can tell us if the moro's used these kind of pegs to attach the crosspiece to the second wooden part...

Yup, wooden pegs are not uncommon to fix the crosspiece to the stem (also seen in other keris as Rick noted). These were most likely original and already present before the fatal break as shown by the less severly affected side.

Thank you for your information, but changing the crosspiece is no option to me..

Sure, that's too nice!

I think also patching is not what i am going to do. Maybe I use some ratan to hide it or some moro fabric, cause I like the restoration and the old patina which I don't want to interfere with....

I do have mixed feelings regarding restoring this piece. If the old repair can be shown to be non-genuine, I could well imagine removing all the rattan and fiber, patching the crosspiece and covering all up with a nice band of silver (and also adding another at the foot of the scabbard and possibly a ferrule). If not, I'd prefer to keep it as it is now (except for a silver band at the foot of the scabbard) rather than trying to cover any of the break as well as repair work...

Regards,
Kai

[Battara]

Kai is on target - good responses.

I agree that it is Sulu, etc. I do think the rope etc is later.

The silver band at the end - maybe, maybe not, though it is harder for me to see the patina well enough to tell for sure. These scabbards sometimes did and did not have silver band(s) at the bottom. If it did, it would also most likely have one under the crosspiece as well.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Battara

I agree that it is Sulu, etc. I do think the rope etc is later.

Thank you Jose. But could this be a "done over and over and over" restoration?

Originally Posted by Battara

The silver band at the end - maybe, maybe not, though it is harder for me to see the patina well enough to tell for sure. These scabbards sometimes did and did not have silver band(s) at the bottom. If it did, it would also most likely have one under the crosspiece as well.

My opinion is that it was or ratan, or brass/copper, considering the metal used between the handle and the pommel. If the scabbard would have silver bands, I guess they would also use silver between the handle and the pommel.

[Battara]

Could also be copper or brass bands - need to check a little spot on the band to see if copper or brass - patinas would look the same (copper content on both).
Would have to see close ups of the scabbard to see if the patina matches woven rattan.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Battara

Could also be copper or brass bands - need to check a little spot on the band to see if copper or brass - patinas would look the same (copper content on both).
Would have to see close ups of the scabbard to see if the patina matches woven rattan.

It is copper and no brass. There is a very little spot on a round edge where the red copper is visible with a magnifying glass. Also it smells heavily like copper.

Here images of the tip of the scabbard where once a band had been. It is approximately 3 cm wide.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by kai

Yup, wooden pegs are not uncommon to fix the crosspiece to the stem (also seen in other keris as Rick noted). These were most likely original and already present before the fatal break as shown by the less severly affected side.

Thanks, I will copy-paste this in my brain..

Originally Posted by kai

I do have mixed feelings regarding restoring this piece. If the old repair can be shown to be non-genuine, I could well imagine removing all the rattan and fiber, patching the crosspiece and covering all up with a nice band of silver (and also adding another at the foot of the scabbard and possibly a ferrule). If not, I'd prefer to keep it as it is now (except for a silver band at the foot of the scabbard) rather than trying to cover any of the break as well as repair work...

Ofcourse you are right. If this restoration appears not to be moro work, I would considering patching and make a band around the patch and also just above the thicker scabbardtip.
Therefore my post, I try to figure out if this could be moro or the work of some kind of hobbyist..
After discussing this here with you guys, it would probably be an easier decission for me to make!

About the silverwork....Just below the cacatua pommel there is a "copper" plate as decoration, which has old patina. I guess this material could be used as ferrule instead of silver??

Kind Regards,
Maurice

[kai]

Hello Maurice,

About the silverwork....Just below the cacatua pommel there is a "copper" plate as decoration, which has old patina. I guess this material could be used as ferrule instead of silver??

Overlooked that. What metal is the wire holding it?

Yes, I agree that the scabbard likely had also bands of copper.

Regards,
Kai