My Haladie

Jim McDougall · 14th July 2010, 04:02 AM

Outstanding example Jens! Thank you. These are the Rajput weapons which evolved out of the connected horn type parrying weapons of Rajasthan.
It is really interesting to see this example with bifurcated tips.
Thank you for getting the thread back to the original course in looking into the haladie and some of its history.

All the very best,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 14th July 2010, 05:59 PM

Jim. The dagger has monitor lizard skin and foot dress. I was once in tune with the British bayonet thing but now I am informed. As I acquired another very much smaller with a scabbard, saddly I have no longer. The scabbard was dressed with the stuffed head of a monitor lizard and front leg. The blade was the same form and you could see from the forging it was not a converted bayonet. I started a thread which i will try to find. The thread I would really like to find started by a member that I cannot remeber. Displaying two or three daggers of the same blade form except the handles were clearly North African ie Tunis, Algeria, Morroco.

Jim McDougall · 15th July 2010, 12:18 AM

Tim I didnt realize this was the lizard and from photos I only saw reptilian

Naturally there werent many crocs in the Sahara

I really had not ever heard of Tuaregs having these kind of blades, which are of bayonet form, but do know that as you note, Berber tribal groups did use them. As I mentioned though, most were French types, but this blade section like most was probably widespread.
I'd like to see that thread, and this really is an interesting weapon....but to me the thuluth is still Sudanese. The monitor lizard skin is on many of the knives and dagger forms I have seen from there.

What you're saying is quite correct, Timbuktu was a profound center of Islamic scholarship, though was often considered an earthen desert spot that became synonomous with being the middle of nowhere....until in recent years amazing libraries and archives were revealed. Here in Mali, the trade routes and interaction of nomadic tribes, most prevalent being Tuareg, is well noted and cultural awareness certainly well represented.

Tim Simmons · 17th July 2010, 05:55 PM

I can not find the thread. I will keep looking. Thuluth has many forms from various parts of the islamic world. I wonder if we could get Verified examples from "Sudan" and examples from "Western Soudan" for examination. Could be a good thread to start.

Jim McDougall · 17th July 2010, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I can not find the thread. I will keep looking. Thuluth has many forms from various parts of the islamic world. I wonder if we could get Verified examples from "Sudan" and examples from "Western Soudan" for examination. Could be a good thread to start.

Thats an excellent idea Tim as this is a topic that would be extremely helpful in understanding the motif on these weapons. A separate thread would help as the subtopic is lost in the context of this thread...which has been a facinating discussion BTW !!!
I have taken the liberty of posting a separate thread as you have suggested, and I look forward to pursuing this further with you and hopefully others will join in. I couldnt find the other thread either, but did come across the interesting thread from April 'Sudanese kirach' which looked at a curious Indian sword with thuluth covered blade.

Maybe Rick can find the old bayonet thread?

17th July 2010, 05:55 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Start Thuluth thread I can not find the thread. I will keep looking. Thuluth has many forms from various parts of the islamic world. I wonder if we could get Verified examples from "Sudan" and examples from "Western Soudan" for examination. Could be a good thread to start.

14th July 2010, 04:02 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,668	Outstanding example Jens! Thank you. These are the Rajput weapons which evolved out of the connected horn type parrying weapons of Rajasthan. It is really interesting to see this example with bifurcated tips. Thank you for getting the thread back to the original course in looking into the haladie and some of its history. All the very best, Jim

14th July 2010, 05:59 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Jim. The dagger has monitor lizard skin and foot dress. I was once in tune with the British bayonet thing but now I am informed. As I acquired another very much smaller with a scabbard, saddly I have no longer. The scabbard was dressed with the stuffed head of a monitor lizard and front leg. The blade was the same form and you could see from the forging it was not a converted bayonet. I started a thread which i will try to find. The thread I would really like to find started by a member that I cannot remeber. Displaying two or three daggers of the same blade form except the handles were clearly North African ie Tunis, Algeria, Morroco.

15th July 2010, 12:18 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,668	Tim I didnt realize this was the lizard and from photos I only saw reptilian Naturally there werent many crocs in the Sahara I really had not ever heard of Tuaregs having these kind of blades, which are of bayonet form, but do know that as you note, Berber tribal groups did use them. As I mentioned though, most were French types, but this blade section like most was probably widespread. I'd like to see that thread, and this really is an interesting weapon....but to me the thuluth is still Sudanese. The monitor lizard skin is on many of the knives and dagger forms I have seen from there. What you're saying is quite correct, Timbuktu was a profound center of Islamic scholarship, though was often considered an earthen desert spot that became synonomous with being the middle of nowhere....until in recent years amazing libraries and archives were revealed. Here in Mali, the trade routes and interaction of nomadic tribes, most prevalent being Tuareg, is well noted and cultural awareness certainly well represented.