Krisses Jalak Buda

Mick · 8th July 2010, 04:50 PM

Jean

Here is basicly what they look like. There has been a market for reproductions of this pieces for a long time. Based on the sheath that was provided for this piece I imagine that this was assembled in the 1930's. Normally there was no pamor on the real pieces. This is a giveaway on this one.

Jean · 8th July 2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Jean

Here is basicly what they look like. There has been a market for reproductions of this pieces for a long time. Based on the sheath that was provided for this piece I imagine that this was assembled in the 1930's. Normally there was no pamor on the real pieces. This is a giveaway on this one.

Hello Mick,
Thanks, your piece is shorter and sturdier than mine, but it looks "processed" indeed. Some of the pieces included in the book "Keris untuk Dunia" also have pamor, but are still classified as from tangguh Singosari....
Best regards
Jean

A. G. Maisey · 9th July 2010, 01:15 AM

Here is an image of a genuine keris budho.

Mick's image also gives a good impression of what they look like. This example is just under 12" long from blade tip to pesi tip.

However, it is necessary to allow a reasonable degree of latitude in assessing whether a blade is genuinely a KB or not.

Erosion can alter the outline of the blade.

Some blades display quite refined features, others are basic.

Based upon my personal observations, I am not yet prepared to dismiss all apparently archaic blades that show some evidence of pamor, as forgeries, false, or creations designed to decieve. Yes, such creations do exist, but the pamor effect can be found in other forms of archaic blade that are not keris blades. Additionally, I am of the opinion that production of blades in the budho form continued well past the Early Classical Period, and probably they were still being produced into the 16th-17th centuries, a period far too early for production to occur for reason of the deception of "tourists" and collectors.

Genuinely archaic keris budho also occur in bronze.

Jean · 9th July 2010, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Here is an image of a genuine keris budho.

Additionally, I am of the opinion that production of blades in the budho form continued well past the Early Classical Period, and probably they were still being produced into the 16th-17th centuries, a period far too early for production to occur for reason of the deception of "tourists" and collectors.

Dear Alan,
Thank you for the picture of the genuine KB, a precious reference for us! Any personal opinion about when and where these krisses were first produced?
I share your opinion that these krisses may have continued to be made into the 16-17th centuries, and this could explain why some pieces have pamor or are in better condition than the original ones but without being recent fake pieces?
Best regards
Jean

A. G. Maisey · 9th July 2010, 11:53 AM

The available evidence seems to indicate that a dagger with the salient features of a keris budho blade was in existence during the Early Classical Period in Central Jawa, that is, prior to approximately 1000AD.

Jean · 9th July 2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The available evidence seems to indicate that a dagger with the salient features of a keris budho blade was in existence during the Early Classical Period in Central Jawa, that is, prior to approximately 1000AD.

Dear Alan,
Thank you and best regards
Jean

BluErf · 11th July 2010, 05:11 AM

G'day Alan,

Based on my very limited contact with keris budho (which may all well be replicas), I noticed that they all have this seriously eroded look, as if they were buried underground for a long time. Are keris budhos generally excavated? None passed down as family heirlooms?

Gustav · 21st June 2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Additionally, I am of the opinion that production of blades in the budho form continued well past the Early Classical Period, and probably they were still being produced into the 16th-17th centuries, a period far too early for production to occur for reason of the deception of "tourists" and collectors.

Here are pictures of an islamic era Keris Jalak Budho. They were taken by one of the most important early photographers in Dutch East Indies, Isidore van Kinsbergen, in 1863/1864. The description says "A kris with arabic inscription (steel and gold) from Garut" (West Java). It seems to have a polished surface, like many keris in old european collections.There is also a picture of lanceheads, which probably look recent (for 1863), which means they were still produced in such forms at this time.

High resolution pictures are to be find here:

http://www.geheugenvannederland.nl/?...:1403-3790-37B

http://www.geheugenvannederland.nl/?...unt=1&wst=kris

http://www.geheugenvannederland.nl/?...wst=lanspunten

You really can go into the details blowing them up.

tunggulametung · 22nd June 2012, 03:11 PM

Can't answer the question but

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Here are pictures of an islamic era Keris Jalak Budho....

similar piece from link

Gustav · 22nd June 2012, 09:39 PM

Tunggulametung, thank you very much for the interesting picture. I have darkened it a little bit to see better the details. It comes from Pagerrujung, half way between Semarang and Pekalongan, Central Java.

tunggulametung · 23rd June 2012, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

...It comes from Pagerrujung, half way between Semarang and Pekalongan, Central Java.

Gustav, I think it is belong to Pagaruyung palace of West Sumatra, if I remember correctly there's another version of the keris photo taken in a ceremony but I can't find it.

I attach another similar example below

Amuk Murugul · 23rd June 2012, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Here are pictures of an islamic era Keris Jalak Budho. They were taken by one of the most important early photographers in Dutch East Indies, Isidore van Kinsbergen, in 1863/1864. The description says "A kris with arabic inscription (steel and gold) from Garut" (West Java)......

Hullo everybody,

Gustav, just a passing comment:
I seem to immediately recognise the first picture as part of my family's heirloom collection,which are still looked after in our Ciburuy, Garut compound.
As for the keris, it very much reminds me of another heirloom looked after at our Cinunuk, Garut compund. If the inscription in Arabic reads (Latinized): "Laa Iqroha Fiddien", then I am sure of it.
Best,

rasdan · 23rd June 2012, 05:42 AM

Hi Amuk,

Here's the close-up of that particular blade. I'm not sure if it says La Iqraha Fiddin on the blade..

Gustav · 23rd June 2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo everybody,

Gustav, just a passing comment:
I seem to immediately recognise the first picture as part of my family's heirloom collection,which are still looked after in our Ciburuy, Garut compound.
As for the keris, it very much reminds me of another heirloom looked after at our Cinunuk, Garut compund. If the inscription in Arabic reads (Latinized): "Laa Iqroha Fiddien", then I am sure of it.
Best,

Amuk Murugul, may I ask you a question regarding the heirloom of your family please:

is it passed on as Warisan (inheritance), or is it a Pusaka?

8th July 2010, 04:50 PM	#1
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	Jean Here is basicly what they look like. There has been a market for reproductions of this pieces for a long time. Based on the sheath that was provided for this piece I imagine that this was assembled in the 1930's. Normally there was no pamor on the real pieces. This is a giveaway on this one. Attached Images

9th July 2010, 01:15 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,046	Here is an image of a genuine keris budho. Mick's image also gives a good impression of what they look like. This example is just under 12" long from blade tip to pesi tip. However, it is necessary to allow a reasonable degree of latitude in assessing whether a blade is genuinely a KB or not. Erosion can alter the outline of the blade. Some blades display quite refined features, others are basic. Based upon my personal observations, I am not yet prepared to dismiss all apparently archaic blades that show some evidence of pamor, as forgeries, false, or creations designed to decieve. Yes, such creations do exist, but the pamor effect can be found in other forms of archaic blade that are not keris blades. Additionally, I am of the opinion that production of blades in the budho form continued well past the Early Classical Period, and probably they were still being produced into the 16th-17th centuries, a period far too early for production to occur for reason of the deception of "tourists" and collectors. Genuinely archaic keris budho also occur in bronze. Attached Images

22nd June 2012, 09:39 PM	#10
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Tunggulametung, thank you very much for the interesting picture. I have darkened it a little bit to see better the details. It comes from Pagerrujung, half way between Semarang and Pekalongan, Central Java. Attached Images

23rd June 2012, 05:42 AM	#13
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Hi Amuk, Here's the close-up of that particular blade. I'm not sure if it says La Iqraha Fiddin on the blade.. Attached Images

9th July 2010, 11:53 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,046	The available evidence seems to indicate that a dagger with the salient features of a keris budho blade was in existence during the Early Classical Period in Central Jawa, that is, prior to approximately 1000AD.

11th July 2010, 05:11 AM	#7
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	G'day Alan, Based on my very limited contact with keris budho (which may all well be replicas), I noticed that they all have this seriously eroded look, as if they were buried underground for a long time. Are keris budhos generally excavated? None passed down as family heirlooms?