My Haladie

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Devadatta

Seems for me Sudanese

Thanks for agreeing with me Davadetta, thats exactly what it is.

[Lew]

Yes I also say Sudanese but I have never seen one with a brass hilt? Funny I have never seen a photo of any Sudanese warrior carrying one?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Lew

Yes I also say Sudanese but I have never seen one with a brass hilt? Funny I have never seen a photo of any Sudanese warrior carrying one?

It is interesting that there were Mahdist kaskaras which sometimes had brass rather than iron crossguards. I was once told that this quite possibly could have had something to do with the superstitions that existed in Saharan regions and probably extended into Sudan concerning iron. While iron had connections with death, the converse was true of brass. It would be interesting to look further into that perspective....as to the use of the haladie, I am under the impression they were status type weapons to ranking tribal figures and the hilts were as noted, often horn or even ivory.
They may have been a symbol of rank, and used in the manner of the alem during battle, more research required

[sailorjohn]

Several members seem to think it is Sudanese. One suggested that the brass hilt had some significance. If anybody has some idea of what such a Haladie might be worth, I would appreciate the opinion. Thanks

[Lew]

Originally Posted by sailorjohn

If anybody has some idea of what such a Haladie might be worth, I would appreciate the opinion. Thanks

John

We absolutely do not quote prices on this forum. Please read the rules.

Lew

8. APPRAISALS

Public appraisals are not permitted on these fora. However, if you would like an appraisal of an item's value or market conditions, please request that other members contact you with that information via email or PM.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by sailorjohn

Several members seem to think it is Sudanese. One suggested that the brass hilt had some significance. If anybody has some idea of what such a Haladie might be worth, I would appreciate the opinion. Thanks

It is I, the phantom of the invisible post who mentioned that brass might have significance. There is a secret method of scrolling upward on the threads to reveal what the people have said before. The reason that the mystical oracle have said it is Sudanese, is because it is, and these notations are also stated in previous posts. The system works much like other forums, and the same kinds of rules on appraisals apply...neat huh!!?

[Tim Simmons]

It appears to have all the signs collectors might consider as Mahdist Sudan. I am little unsure.

I really do not want to be a party pooper but this does look somewhat latter.

That is also assuming Sudan as in Omderman. I just have the feeling that to much is missing even for peasants at the time of conflict.

[Jim McDougall]

Ahah! the spectre of doubt has been detected in the decree of Sudanese origin for this weapon, heavily etched in thuluth script as many Sudanese weapons, especially kaskara, are.

I have seen similar script on the 'Sword of Byajidda' of Nigeria, but as discussed in Bivar (op.cit.1964) this seems one of a number of weapons which are believed to originate in the Nilotic Sudan. It is noted that the elongated 'naskhi' script evolved into the 'thuluth' style of Mamluk calligraphy in of course Egypt. The Mamluk presence in Egypt until early 19th century movements into the Sudan may account for the presence of this type of script which became well known with the Mahdist Revolts 1883-1898, and perhaps even earlier as the movement developed in the 1870s.

Obviously the Mamluk heritage is well known in Syria, and Stone calls the 'haladie' the Syrian knife, and as Mamluks were of course present in Egypt under Ottoman rule, but it seems predominantly that their presence in the Sudan set the course for this broad stroke Islamic script.

Omdurman was of course the Mahdist capital of the Sudan.