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Old 4th July 2010, 02:10 AM   #1
kai
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According to Elio Modigliani in " Un Viaggio a Nias" they are just knifes with a plain blade ( The Niha didn't made pamor blades) but is the scabbard shape meant to imitate the keris scabbards.
Any laminated blade has pamor (however weak) and I believe that anybody would be misled when assuming that the absence of any bold pamor would help to exclude these blades from being keris...

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Kai
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Old 4th July 2010, 08:49 AM   #2
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Here are the blades of 3 of my Si Euli. I am travelling at the moment so I don't have any possibility to take better pictures but I hope they are good enough as examples for this thread. The 4 other antique ones I have seen all had the same kind of plain blades as mine (as Arjan indicated).
I agree with Kai that they seems to be closer to a local variation of the sewar than the keris. Probably the keris like ones are exceptions, based on their rarity in old collections?

Michael
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Old 4th July 2010, 02:20 PM   #3
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Hi Kai, thanks for the update.. forgot to check Karsten's "Kris Disk".. Better pictures of the 1st posted piece are found there, but still no blade visible except for those which are sewar-like, (3 examples).

Hi Michael, nice examples of Si Euli. My obsevations are, Si Euli is typically a sewar-like blade with a sewar-like sheath.. however, the example posted in post #1, probably have a sewar-like blade with a keris-like sheath..

If we look at other weaponry of Nias, we mostly see variation of balato, sewar and badik-like knives, spears, etc.. The same post #1 piece can also be found in Feldman's book "Nias, Tribal Treasures. Cosmic Reflections in Stone, Wood and Gold", again without the blade visible..

The one found in Jensen's 'Kris Disk', Fig 209: "A Chief from North Nias with a Gayo/Aceh type of kris", may be an imported keris used, not part of the local culture. My opinion is, there is no keris culture in Nias.. if there is keris found there, it's most probably imported from mainland Sumatra. Currently I do not have supportive evidence to prove that, but I've yet to see evidence that one does exist to sway my opinion. What do you think?
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Old 4th July 2010, 03:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alam Shah
Hi Kai, thanks for the update.. forgot to check Karsten's "Kris Disk".. Better pictures of the 1st posted piece are found there, but still no blade visible except for those which are sewar-like, (3 examples).

Hi Michael, nice examples of Si Euli. My obsevations are, Si Euli is typically a sewar-like blade with a sewar-like sheath.. however, the example posted in post #1, probably have a sewar-like blade with a keris-like sheath..

If we look at other weaponry of Nias, we mostly see variation of balato, sewar and badik-like knives, spears, etc.. The same post #1 piece can also be found in Feldman's book "Nias, Tribal Treasures. Cosmic Reflections in Stone, Wood and Gold", again without the blade visible..

The one found in Jensen's 'Kris Disk', Fig 209: "A Chief from North Nias with a Gayo/Aceh type of kris", may be an imported keris used, not part of the local culture. My opinion is, there is no keris culture in Nias.. if there is keris found there, it's most probably imported from mainland Sumatra. Currently I do not have supportive evidence to prove that, but I've yet to see evidence that one does exist to sway my opinion. What do you think?
Hi Alam Shah, Indeed there was no keris culture on Nias,or at least when imported kerisses are adopted they didn't had the function like on Java an Bali. The culture on Nias was totally different and what was the keris for a Javanese was the Balatu Sebua ( translated= Knife no;1 or the first knife) for a Niha. We have to split however Nias in south and north and the north had much more influence from Sumatra. The Balatu sebua there had influenced from the Atjeh sikin for example. They stayed however Balatu's.
Also the sewarlike Si Euli was IMO more common in the North as the South.Old pics from the north for example show sometimes warriors without Balatu sebua but with Si Euli. The fact that the balatu didn't had its rattan ball and that headhunting wasn't mostly practised in the north, may point out that the Balato lost somewhat of his importance. See there the base to adopt weaponery from other cultures. The statement that the first weapon should represent a keris is somewhat to far IMO. If we see the great skill a niha could carve I don't think they tried to imitate a javanese keris but they just adopted some designs they like. You see that also in the swords of north nias. some are almost like a sikin but are they still balato? Difficult... but what's in the name.....

regards,

Arjan
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Old 4th July 2010, 07:37 PM   #5
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Just found this curious one, a scabbard only .....

It has more in common with the human figures with upraised arms IMO.
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Old 5th July 2010, 04:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandaukudi
The statement that the first weapon should represent a keris is somewhat to far IMO. If we see the great skill a niha could carve I don't think they tried to imitate a javanese keris but they just adopted some designs they like. You see that also in the swords of north nias. some are almost like a sikin but are they still balato? Difficult... but what's in the name.....

regards,

Arjan
Thanks Arjan for the additional info..
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Old 4th July 2010, 03:32 PM   #7
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Hello,

I just want to add a thought. I have seen some Siraui in Keris like sheaths and nobody will call them keris only because the similar sheat so why we want to call Si Eulis Nias Keris because some come with a Keris like sheath?
And don't foget the main different between keris and other daggers: A keris have a gonjo! And I don't remember to have seen a Si Euli with a gonjo.

Detlef
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Old 4th July 2010, 04:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Sajen
Hello,

I just want to add a thought. I have seen some Siraui in Keris like sheaths and nobody will call them keris only because the similar sheat so why we want to call Si Eulis Nias Keris because some come with a Keris like sheath?
And don't foget the main different between keris and other daggers: A keris have a gonjo! And I don't remember to have seen a Si Euli with a gonjo.

Detlef
Hi Sajen,

I don't think the real question in situ here is if we must call a Si euli with a keris like scabbard a keris or a Si Euli.
I think what Alam Shah wanted to know if kerisses where also made on Nias or not and if there's any Keris culture on the island or not, but correct me if I'm wrong............
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Old 4th July 2010, 06:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandaukudi
I don't think the real question in situ here is if we must call a Si euli with a keris like scabbard a keris or a Si Euli.
I think what Alam Shah wanted to know if kerisses where also made on Nias or not and if there's any Keris culture on the island or not, but correct me if I'm wrong............
It seems to me that if this conversation is to continue that this is the direction it should take. This is, after all, a forum dedicated to the keris. Let's direct this discussion then towards actual Nias keris, not siraui of other weapons of the region.
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Old 4th July 2010, 10:47 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by David
It seems to me that if this conversation is to continue that this is the direction it should take. This is, after all, a forum dedicated to the keris. Let's direct this discussion then towards actual Nias keris, not siraui of other weapons of the region.

Oooh that way, I changed my mind, its a keris of course!
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Old 5th July 2010, 03:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
It seems to me that if this conversation is to continue that this is the direction it should take. This is, after all, a forum dedicated to the keris. Let's direct this discussion then towards actual Nias keris, not siraui of other weapons of the region.
I believe what others are trying to say here are, the relations of the 'Nias Keris' form, the blade and sheath. Adding a little about the cultures in Nias.. the extend of outside influence with the culture.. the form of its weapons - (to established if Keris is one of the weapon used), still within the parameters of a keris discussion..

As mentioned, it is believed to be a status wear (out of fancy, oddity), rather than a culture. Perhaps when it's listed in the Ensiklopedi Keris as a keris, many imitations and wannabes starts to appear..

Last edited by Alam Shah; 5th July 2010 at 04:11 AM.
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Old 4th July 2010, 07:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandaukudi
Hi Sajen,

I don't think the real question in situ here is if we must call a Si euli with a keris like scabbard a keris or a Si Euli.
I think what Alam Shah wanted to know if kerisses where also made on Nias or not and if there's any Keris culture on the island or not, but correct me if I'm wrong............

Of course you are correct! And what I want to say is that on Nias don't have been a Keris culture since this blades lacks all features a keris blade normally have and the only similarity is the sheat.
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Old 5th July 2010, 04:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
.. I just want to add a thought. I have seen some Siraui in Keris like sheaths and nobody will call them keris only because the similar sheat so why we want to call Si Eulis Nias Keris because some come with a Keris like sheath?

And don't foget the main different between keris and other daggers: A keris have a gonjo! And I don't remember to have seen a Si Euli with a gonjo.

Detlef
As we know, the primary focus is the blade, the sheath and fittings are secondary. If the blade is like those posted in #13 & #18, then it's not a keris, no matter what is is called locally..

As for the Siraui, the blade itself is not, although the sheath, does looks like a gayaman styled keris sheath, to a certain extent.
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Old 6th July 2010, 05:34 PM   #14
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Hi all,

I tought i have another "keris like object" , it DOES have gonjo, nias keris ?
frankly said, i interested on the mollar hilt
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Old 6th July 2010, 06:24 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SwordZ
Hi all,

I tought i have another "keris like object" , it DOES have gonjo, nias keris ?
frankly said, i interested on the mollar hilt
Well, almost, but it seem that the workshop guys in Indonesia know what we wanna have, extremely scarce models with scarce hilts....

made for a few dollar, and when sold in their store,seller asks maker, come lets make more............
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