Putting together a museum exhibit linking Java keris to Philippine kris

Bill M · 26th June 2010, 02:05 PM

Tom, I did not mean to malign the Indonesian kris as a weapon, more to contrast it with the Moro. The Indonesian tang is small diameter and not usually well-fixed to the handle as compared to the PI / Moro kris.

This is because the handle of an Indonesian keris is made to be removed easily. I don't agree that these two weapons are anywhere near equal in a fight.

If you were in a sword fight, which one would you choose?

As far as the keris/kris question, I consider it a matter of convenience to identify the style of an Indonesian keris to the style of a Moro.

The Buginese keris are also important. My focus needs to revolve around what I have. FI I have two Buginese, while I have 62 Javanese and 23 Balinese. I also have a very few other keris.

Moro and environs, I have 71 kris. I mention these numbers to say that I have substantially more to choose from for this display. The museum patrons have never seen a keris/kris before. Don't want to confuse them with a lot of other keris styles. Big Picture.

Simple. Not going into specifics or pamor or dapor either. Just a comment or so about how a student might want a certain pattern while a merchant or military man might want a different pattern.

A few other weapons and working blades in a case with basic descriptions.

tunggulametung,
Right on with your questions and thank you so much for the diagram you posted.

As far as nomenclature, I may be best to stay with "Handle" and "scabbard" with a diagram showing native language of more specific parts for those viewers who might have an interest. Less confusing.

tom hyle · 26th June 2010, 02:17 PM

hmmmm....
The Indonesian kris tang is not well fixed in its handle because its current use in its culture is somewhat vestigial/ceremonial this does not comment on its use in older times. The connection is regularly updated; one almost never encounters and 18th C kris that hasn't been dressed and undressed many times, and yes, for the last 50 or 100 years with little concern for combat. This says nothing about the original mounting.
I am 5'8" 220# A malay is up to my nipple. I would in a fight prefer a sword of proper size to me. In sword using cultures swords are typically made to fit the user. This is not the only issue, of course (Moro Malays are also to my nipple in height, of course) but just to mention on thing you're not considering.
Consider that convenience and accuracy are often incompatible, re kris/keris.
I suggest at lest on Bugi kris, at least one Bali kris, at least one gunong, at least one "tempius" at least one matulis. What would be super cool is a Visayan (mounted) kris sundang. I bet some forum members might even loan you a piece or two if they can be properly assured the System won't try to steal them.
Using English terminology when speaking with English speakers is definitely best; I agree.

apolaki · 26th June 2010, 05:35 PM

Hello Mr. Tom Hyle,

I don't understand why you are referring to them as Moro malays because they are Filipino.

Amuk Murugul · 26th June 2010, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolaki

Hello Mr. Tom Hyle,

I don't understand why you are referring to them as Moro malays because they are Filipino.

Hullo everybody

.....hmmm.... I think he is referring to their ethnic grouping, rather than their nationality. Anyway, questions on nationality would best be put to the tribes (both Muslim and non-Muslim) who now reluctantly embrace the 'Moro' label as this is a more recognizable term on the global stage, thereby increasing the chances of success in their aspirations.
Furthermore, not all Philippines tribes are of Malay stock.

Best,

26th June 2010, 02:17 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	hmmmm.... The Indonesian kris tang is not well fixed in its handle because its current use in its culture is somewhat vestigial/ceremonial this does not comment on its use in older times. The connection is regularly updated; one almost never encounters and 18th C kris that hasn't been dressed and undressed many times, and yes, for the last 50 or 100 years with little concern for combat. This says nothing about the original mounting. I am 5'8" 220# A malay is up to my nipple. I would in a fight prefer a sword of proper size to me. In sword using cultures swords are typically made to fit the user. This is not the only issue, of course (Moro Malays are also to my nipple in height, of course) but just to mention on thing you're not considering. Consider that convenience and accuracy are often incompatible, re kris/keris. I suggest at lest on Bugi kris, at least one Bali kris, at least one gunong, at least one "tempius" at least one matulis. What would be super cool is a Visayan (mounted) kris sundang. I bet some forum members might even loan you a piece or two if they can be properly assured the System won't try to steal them. Using English terminology when speaking with English speakers is definitely best; I agree. Last edited by tom hyle; 26th June 2010 at 02:27 PM. Reason: curious; my private message box denies me access; can I post? What's wrong?

26th June 2010, 02:05 PM	#1
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Tom, I did not mean to malign the Indonesian kris as a weapon, more to contrast it with the Moro. The Indonesian tang is small diameter and not usually well-fixed to the handle as compared to the PI / Moro kris. This is because the handle of an Indonesian keris is made to be removed easily. I don't agree that these two weapons are anywhere near equal in a fight. If you were in a sword fight, which one would you choose? As far as the keris/kris question, I consider it a matter of convenience to identify the style of an Indonesian keris to the style of a Moro. The Buginese keris are also important. My focus needs to revolve around what I have. FI I have two Buginese, while I have 62 Javanese and 23 Balinese. I also have a very few other keris. Moro and environs, I have 71 kris. I mention these numbers to say that I have substantially more to choose from for this display. The museum patrons have never seen a keris/kris before. Don't want to confuse them with a lot of other keris styles. Big Picture. Simple. Not going into specifics or pamor or dapor either. Just a comment or so about how a student might want a certain pattern while a merchant or military man might want a different pattern. A few other weapons and working blades in a case with basic descriptions. tunggulametung, Right on with your questions and thank you so much for the diagram you posted. As far as nomenclature, I may be best to stay with "Handle" and "scabbard" with a diagram showing native language of more specific parts for those viewers who might have an interest. Less confusing.

26th June 2010, 05:35 PM	#3
apolaki Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 160	Hello Mr. Tom Hyle, I don't understand why you are referring to them as Moro malays because they are Filipino.