Putting together a museum exhibit linking Java keris to Philippine kris

tom hyle · 25th June 2010, 01:52 PM

Moro swords (including bangkungs sometimes for instance) are sometimes bound to their handles by metal or fiber bindings that cross hooks or holes in the blade. These bindings are called asang or baca, and have long tangs themselves that are bound between the handle surface and its wrapping.
On kris sundang these are said to be to secure the ganga to the blade rather than the blade to the hilt. This does not seem correct to me though. Why the tangs? What about when they're on bangkungs? (bangkungs have no seperate ganga) other kris do not AFAIK have bacas/asangs. It is not a kris feature IMHO, but a Mindinao feature.

tom hyle · 25th June 2010, 01:54 PM

It is traditional with collectors in USA to speak as if the pommel on kris sundang were seperate from (and more interesting than) the handle. Usually if not always they are actually one piece of wood (etc.).

tom hyle · 25th June 2010, 01:56 PM

In addition to the iron ganga many kris (non-sundang) have a second, nonferous, round, drawn-on bolster that sits around the tang above the blade, below the handle (swords are spoken of in the "West" traditionally as if being worn; the point is the bottom; the pommel is the top) This ring is often jewelled and AFAIK its purpose is jewelry.

tom hyle · 25th June 2010, 01:58 PM

kris may be held by pinching the blade, and many have grooves for the fingers to engage. The kris becomes your finger, so to speak.

tom hyle · 25th June 2010, 02:00 PM

Please don't use the word malice. Death and War are mighty fine Gods. They are not about malice.

tom hyle · 25th June 2010, 02:02 PM

Is this the right forum? I think so, but can this thread by on the kris forum, too?

Bill M · 25th June 2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

Please don't use the word malice. Death and War are mighty fine Gods. They are not about malice.

The Curator and Executive Director like the title, but it is my decision. What would you suggest as a better overall title. I like "Elegance" but am very open.

BTW I am certainly fine with the Mods moving this thread to the Keris Forum, but this is really about much more than the kris. They are also interested in the people (PI and Java), other weapons, daily life, religion and talismans.

Most of this I see centered in a time period from about 1400-1500 until 1925-50, though I do like the picture of the keris guy on the scooter.

tom hyle · 25th June 2010, 02:28 PM

"Ellegance of Death?"

25th June 2010, 01:52 PM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Moro swords (including bangkungs sometimes for instance) are sometimes bound to their handles by metal or fiber bindings that cross hooks or holes in the blade. These bindings are called asang or baca, and have long tangs themselves that are bound between the handle surface and its wrapping. On kris sundang these are said to be to secure the ganga to the blade rather than the blade to the hilt. This does not seem correct to me though. Why the tangs? What about when they're on bangkungs? (bangkungs have no seperate ganga) other kris do not AFAIK have bacas/asangs. It is not a kris feature IMHO, but a Mindinao feature. Last edited by tom hyle; 26th June 2010 at 05:06 AM.

25th June 2010, 01:54 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	It is traditional with collectors in USA to speak as if the pommel on kris sundang were seperate from (and more interesting than) the handle. Usually if not always they are actually one piece of wood (etc.).

25th June 2010, 01:56 PM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	In addition to the iron ganga many kris (non-sundang) have a second, nonferous, round, drawn-on bolster that sits around the tang above the blade, below the handle (swords are spoken of in the "West" traditionally as if being worn; the point is the bottom; the pommel is the top) This ring is often jewelled and AFAIK its purpose is jewelry.

25th June 2010, 01:58 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	kris may be held by pinching the blade, and many have grooves for the fingers to engage. The kris becomes your finger, so to speak.

25th June 2010, 02:00 PM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Please don't use the word malice. Death and War are mighty fine Gods. They are not about malice.

25th June 2010, 02:02 PM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Is this the right forum? I think so, but can this thread by on the kris forum, too?

25th June 2010, 02:28 PM	#8
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	"Ellegance of Death?"