Antique Jade Sword

cmario88 · 22nd June 2010, 06:09 PM

Philip, Thank you on your reply to my "curio" and I say that with a smile. I'm waiting for responses from a few other sources and would like to wait before commenting on your assessment. Again thank you.

Nathaniel · 23rd June 2010, 03:08 AM

Mario,

Philip would be the one of the top authorities on Chinese swords (Google it)...notice the rest of us can tell you it's a fake...but Philip can give you the details....several members on the forum have been collecting for a long time...and have seen what has come around.

The more recent fakes coming out of China are getting better and better at first glance...but still have such a crazy mix motifs send red flags....like Philip said...things just don't add up.

And also to answer your one question regarding the specific forum:

Note the file at the top:

刀剑天下论坛 HFsword.com Forums » 假冒伪劣 Fake Sword Forum

http://hfsword.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?fid=8

Nathaniel · 23rd June 2010, 03:16 AM

Also sadly the Sword Forum International --> Antique Arms & Armour Community -->Chinese, SEA (CSEA)

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=146

This section seems to be prime spot where people ask such questions regarding their recent acquisitions...

Rick · 23rd June 2010, 04:35 PM

Yes, Philip Tom is the real deal .
Trust his remarks about your sword .
They are spot on .

Bill M · 23rd June 2010, 05:44 PM

Mario,

I understand how this must feel. My first Chinese sword was an "Imperial Emperor General Jian," from eBay. Whew! It was a learning experience! Ouch! That was a few years ago and while I have found a few bargains online, the best have come from reputable dealers and other collectors.

So, how do you know the "reputable" people? Hang around here and ask a few questions. Make friends, read books, visit museums. This is not an exact science and you will make some mistakes, but as you study, network and learn, the mistakes will get fewer.

With the kind assistance of several of the forum members here, I acquired some authentic and beautiful pieces. Collecting is a fascinating and worthwhile endeavor.

You can absolutely trust Phillip Tom's comments. He is one of the very top experts in the world in Chinese arms. You do not need to look further. He is trying to help you understand.

There are others here who are also experts in their fields.

I am sure that I speak for many of the people on this Forum when I say, "Welcome." Hope that we see you again.

Bill

cmario88 · 23rd June 2010, 06:04 PM

Bill, Thank you for your kind and thoughtful words. Sometimes you need a thick skin when dealing with forums, some people take things way too personal and view what you say as an attack on them. Fortunately it hasn’t happen here. I think I’ll be sticking around for a while. Got a lot to learn!

Mario

cmario88 · 23rd June 2010, 05:48 PM

Hi Rick, I was hoping this site would be the place I'd find some answers and it hasn't disappointed. Everyone has been Great and yes it -Stings- a little learning about my sword but I still enjoy and appreciate it.

Regards

Rick · 23rd June 2010, 06:02 PM

You're very welcome cmario88 .

Maybe you'll become an enthusiast ...aka Addict .

Philip · 23rd June 2010, 09:47 PM

Mario, and all the gang...
If you want to see some Chinese arms from the former imperial court collection, at last we have an all-color book that's strictly devoted to the subject (not the usual art book with maybe one armor and two swords amidst a whole slew of paintings and armchairs):
ARMAMENTS AND MILITARY PROVISIONS: THE COMPLETE COLLECTION OF TREASURES OF THE PALACE MUSEUM VOL. 56, Hong Kong: Commercial Press 2008. Hardbound, lg format, 262 pp, with material grouped into themes: military parades, hunting, horsey stuff, armor, swords and sabers, archery, firearms and light artillery. A lot of the pieces were products of the Forbidden City's workshops or of artisans commissioned by the court. Even more interesting historically are foreign weapons captured in war, presented as tribute gifts, and purchased for military trials and issue during the late 19th cent. modernization drive.

Text in Chinese but picture captions have English with dimensions. Photography is excellent, except they goofed on some pics of the hunting guns so you end up with the impression that most of the Qing emperors were southpaw shooters like yours truly! Just remember that on a matchlock, the serpentine and priming pan are on the RIGHT side of the barrel and you be fine.

You might check Paragon Books in Chicago or Han-Shan Tang in the UK, they may have still have it in stock since it's a fairly new publication.

Atlantia · 23rd June 2010, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmario88

Hi Rick, I was hoping this site would be the place I'd find some answers and it hasn't disappointed. Everyone has been Great and yes it -Stings- a little learning about my sword but I still enjoy and appreciate it.

Regards

Mario

Even though your sword is a marriage of ancient, old and new parts etc, it's still a beautiful thing.
Definately oil the blade. Rub some WD40 or something into the rust to make sure it doesn't progress.
Enjoy it as a beautiful object.... then go and find it some friends

Many collectors here have items in their collections that are not completely original, many have reproduction items. And you're not the first here to find out that an item isn't entirely 'kosher' after owning it for a while

Hope to see some more of your finds soon.
Gene

cmario88 · 23rd June 2010, 05:37 PM

Hi Nathaniel,

I have no doubt Philip is the authority and as mentioned I am grateful for his response and he has my respect, but that does not mean that I’m going to stop there. I’m also in agreement that it appears the sword has no historical value, but I must cover all avenues in the hopes that by chance it may have another story to tell other then greed, slim I know but crazier things have happened in the world and I think it’s worth a try. Don’t you?
One of the reasons I was waiting to respond back to Philip concerns the infamous “Hong Kong Art Craft Merchants Association” “Certificate Of Antiquity” I’m waiting for response concerning that document. I think it would be fun to see what comes of my request, but truthfully think I’m going to run into a dead end knowing the Chinese reputation on giving out info. Anyway Nathaniel I truly appreciate your help and will post when I have something interesting.

Thanks everyone!!!

Nathaniel · 24th June 2010, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmario88

Hi Nathaniel,

I have no doubt Philip is the authority and as mentioned I am grateful for his response and he has my respect, but that does not mean that I’m going to stop there. I’m also in agreement that it appears the sword has no historical value, but I must cover all avenues in the hopes that by chance it may have another story to tell other then greed, slim I know but crazier things have happened in the world and I think it’s worth a try. Don’t you?
One of the reasons I was waiting to respond back to Philip concerns the infamous “Hong Kong Art Craft Merchants Association” “Certificate Of Antiquity” I’m waiting for response concerning that document. I think it would be fun to see what comes of my request, but truthfully think I’m going to run into a dead end knowing the Chinese reputation on giving out info. Anyway Nathaniel I truly appreciate your help and will post when I have something interesting.

Thanks everyone!!!

Mario,

Great stuff your investigation. I know I have lots to learn and have learned a lot here with the great bunch of guys here. I'm sure there is stuff too I have incorrect. As Bill said, many of use experienced something similar at one point in our collecting. And I forgot to say, Welcome

And yes, do check out the book Philip is talking about. It's a nice hardcover with good photos.

ariel · 24th June 2010, 04:27 AM

Any info on how to order this book?

Nathaniel · 24th June 2010, 04:45 AM

http://www.paragonbook.com/html/brow...cfm?item=35603

http://hanshanhost.demonweb.co.uk/g/GGMC56.HTM

Expensive.

22nd June 2010, 06:09 PM	#1
cmario88 Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8	Thank you Philip, Thank you on your reply to my "curio" and I say that with a smile. I'm waiting for responses from a few other sources and would like to wait before commenting on your assessment. Again thank you.

23rd June 2010, 03:08 AM	#2
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Mario, Philip would be the one of the top authorities on Chinese swords (Google it)...notice the rest of us can tell you it's a fake...but Philip can give you the details....several members on the forum have been collecting for a long time...and have seen what has come around. The more recent fakes coming out of China are getting better and better at first glance...but still have such a crazy mix motifs send red flags....like Philip said...things just don't add up. And also to answer your one question regarding the specific forum: Note the file at the top: 刀剑天下论坛 HFsword.com Forums » 假冒伪劣 Fake Sword Forum http://hfsword.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?fid=8 Last edited by Nathaniel; 23rd June 2010 at 03:29 AM.

23rd June 2010, 06:04 PM	#6
cmario88 Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8	Bill Bill, Thank you for your kind and thoughtful words. Sometimes you need a thick skin when dealing with forums, some people take things way too personal and view what you say as an attack on them. Fortunately it hasn’t happen here. I think I’ll be sticking around for a while. Got a lot to learn! Mario

23rd June 2010, 05:48 PM	#7
cmario88 Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8	Thank You Rick Hi Rick, I was hoping this site would be the place I'd find some answers and it hasn't disappointed. Everyone has been Great and yes it -Stings- a little learning about my sword but I still enjoy and appreciate it. Regards

23rd June 2010, 09:47 PM	#9
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Check this book out, there's pavlovian stuff in it Mario, and all the gang... If you want to see some Chinese arms from the former imperial court collection, at last we have an all-color book that's strictly devoted to the subject (not the usual art book with maybe one armor and two swords amidst a whole slew of paintings and armchairs): ARMAMENTS AND MILITARY PROVISIONS: THE COMPLETE COLLECTION OF TREASURES OF THE PALACE MUSEUM VOL. 56, Hong Kong: Commercial Press 2008. Hardbound, lg format, 262 pp, with material grouped into themes: military parades, hunting, horsey stuff, armor, swords and sabers, archery, firearms and light artillery. A lot of the pieces were products of the Forbidden City's workshops or of artisans commissioned by the court. Even more interesting historically are foreign weapons captured in war, presented as tribute gifts, and purchased for military trials and issue during the late 19th cent. modernization drive. Text in Chinese but picture captions have English with dimensions. Photography is excellent, except they goofed on some pics of the hunting guns so you end up with the impression that most of the Qing emperors were southpaw shooters like yours truly! Just remember that on a matchlock, the serpentine and priming pan are on the RIGHT side of the barrel and you be fine. You might check Paragon Books in Chicago or Han-Shan Tang in the UK, they may have still have it in stock since it's a fairly new publication.

23rd June 2010, 03:16 AM	#3
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Also sadly the Sword Forum International --> Antique Arms & Armour Community -->Chinese, SEA (CSEA) http://www.swordforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=146 This section seems to be prime spot where people ask such questions regarding their recent acquisitions...

23rd June 2010, 04:35 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Yes, Philip Tom is the real deal . Trust his remarks about your sword . They are spot on .

23rd June 2010, 05:44 PM	#5
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Mario, I understand how this must feel. My first Chinese sword was an "Imperial Emperor General Jian," from eBay. Whew! It was a learning experience! Ouch! That was a few years ago and while I have found a few bargains online, the best have come from reputable dealers and other collectors. So, how do you know the "reputable" people? Hang around here and ask a few questions. Make friends, read books, visit museums. This is not an exact science and you will make some mistakes, but as you study, network and learn, the mistakes will get fewer. With the kind assistance of several of the forum members here, I acquired some authentic and beautiful pieces. Collecting is a fascinating and worthwhile endeavor. You can absolutely trust Phillip Tom's comments. He is one of the very top experts in the world in Chinese arms. You do not need to look further. He is trying to help you understand. There are others here who are also experts in their fields. I am sure that I speak for many of the people on this Forum when I say, "Welcome." Hope that we see you again. Bill

23rd June 2010, 06:02 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	You're very welcome cmario88 . Maybe you'll become an enthusiast ...aka Addict .

23rd June 2010, 05:37 PM	#11
cmario88 Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8	Jade Sword Hi Nathaniel, I have no doubt Philip is the authority and as mentioned I am grateful for his response and he has my respect, but that does not mean that I’m going to stop there. I’m also in agreement that it appears the sword has no historical value, but I must cover all avenues in the hopes that by chance it may have another story to tell other then greed, slim I know but crazier things have happened in the world and I think it’s worth a try. Don’t you? One of the reasons I was waiting to respond back to Philip concerns the infamous “Hong Kong Art Craft Merchants Association” “Certificate Of Antiquity” I’m waiting for response concerning that document. I think it would be fun to see what comes of my request, but truthfully think I’m going to run into a dead end knowing the Chinese reputation on giving out info. Anyway Nathaniel I truly appreciate your help and will post when I have something interesting. Thanks everyone!!!

24th June 2010, 04:27 AM	#13
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Any info on how to order this book?

24th June 2010, 04:45 AM	#14
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	http://www.paragonbook.com/html/brow...cfm?item=35603 http://hanshanhost.demonweb.co.uk/g/GGMC56.HTM Expensive.