Nice Old Tuareg Spear?

Lew · 3rd June 2005, 02:54 AM

Hi Tim,Freddy and All

This nice old spear arrived today! It looks like a late 19th century Tuareg spear? It's in great condition the seller was able to separate the three pieces so no cutting of the shaft took place

I popped everything back together and it now has a place of honor in my trophy room. Let me know what you think?

Lew

Tim Simmons · 3rd June 2005, 09:28 AM

Hi Lew, very nice spear, may also be Sudanese.This is my all metal Tuareg lance, note the mail penetrating blade.The spikes at the base of the blade have been bent in, shame. I dare not do anything about it.Tim

Flavio · 3rd June 2005, 10:32 AM

Hello friends, very beautiful spears!

Hello Lew your spear don't seems to me Tuareg. The spear of Tim is tipical Tuareg, yours could be from other region like East Africa or Sudanese like Tim says. Anyway great piece!!

Flavio · 3rd June 2005, 10:41 AM

Maybe Shilluk or Somali?

Lew · 3rd June 2005, 02:37 PM

Hi Guys

Thanks for the input. The reason I thought it was Tuareg is that Artzi has one listed on his website and mine is a dead ringer compared to his.
http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=1713

Lew

Ferguson · 3rd June 2005, 06:34 PM

Very nice!

Steve

Freddy · 4th June 2005, 06:40 PM

I think Tim is right. It looks more Sudanese to me, too.

Jim McDougall · 5th June 2005, 11:17 PM

Hello Flavio,
Interesting illustrations! Could you please cite the reference?

Best regards,
Jim

Lew · 6th June 2005, 04:18 PM

Hi Jim

The photos in question come from African Arms and Armor by Christopher Springs.

Lew

Flavio · 6th June 2005, 08:32 PM

Hello Jim, Lew is right. From the same source some Fulani (north Nigeria - south Niger) guys with tuareg like spears and swords.

Jim McDougall · 7th June 2005, 12:32 AM

Hi Lew and Flavio,
Thanks very much guys!! I didn't recognize the photos

Best regards,
Jim

thinreadline · 19th January 2012, 11:54 AM

This is an example of a similar spear / lance from my own collection .. I always had it down as Sudanese , but would also welcome opinions .
It is 190 cm long , blade inc socket is 50 cm with the greatest blade length being 9 cm . The butt is a flattened almost fish tail shape .

Lew · 19th January 2012, 12:36 PM

I would say yes Sudanese for sure.

Gavin Nugent · 19th January 2012, 12:51 PM

Nice pieces, I purchased these a little while back. Picture from the sale.

thinreadline · 19th January 2012, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Nice pieces, I purchased these a little while back. Picture from the sale.

Superb shield and broad bladed spear .. very nice find. The top spear looks Zulu .

thinreadline · 19th January 2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

I would say yes Sudanese for sure.

Yes thanks Lew ... what length is yours ?

Gavin Nugent · 19th January 2012, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline

Superb shield and broad bladed spear .. very nice find. The top spear looks Zulu .

Thanks Rich,

The top one will find a new home in the coming months, however the spear and shield make for a very dramatic display in the dining room.

Gav

thinreadline · 19th January 2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Thanks Rich,

The top one will find a new home in the coming months, however the spear and shield make for a very dramatic display in the dining room.

Gav

'Lucky is the man who can display his shields in the dining room' ( old Wirral proverb I just made up )
Richmond

Gavin Nugent · 19th January 2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline

'Lucky is the man who can display his shields in the dining room' ( old Wirral proverb I just made up )
Richmond

It is strange the ways in Slacks Creek...I can only put two swords in the dining room but all the shields and spear I can muster can line the walls in the common areas....it seems she who must be obeyed likes spears and never stops telling me either....

thinreadline · 19th January 2012, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

It is strange the ways in Slacks Creek...I can only put two swords in the dining room but all the shields and spear I can muster can line the walls in the common areas....it seems she who must be obeyed likes spears and never stops telling me either....

Now that's very interesting ... as here in Wirral my other half likes daggers & swords but is not so keen on spears and shields ! Strange are the ways of women . However we both must thank our lucky stars as at least they like some weaponry around the house .... most of my pals have to smuggle it in !
PS ... did you ever see the pic I posted showing my wife's bedroom dressing table ... littered not with make up and jewellery , but with her dagger collection !

Gavin Nugent · 19th January 2012, 02:23 PM

I believe I did Rich, many moons ago now. Great to see you back in the thick of things and those of the fairer sex...best left untouched ;-) there are some very astute members here :-)

Martin Lubojacky · 20th January 2012, 09:48 AM

The shield is Fundj. Excellent condition !!!

Gavin Nugent · 20th January 2012, 11:04 AM

Thanks Martin. I saw Wolf had the same attribution in his reference pages...however I had not seen it anywhere else nor can find anything else about it...

Is the broad spear considered to also be Findj?

Martin Lubojacky · 20th January 2012, 11:29 AM

Hello Gav,
The shield is also in the book "African Shields" by Zirngibl. (I have also one - bought in "army shop" in Prague a few years ago...)

I am of the opinion the spear with broad spearhead is old Massai from the 19th century. Allegedly - before the opening of the export of iron rods to East Africa at the beginning of 20th century (used for long slender spearsheads), the Massai used to use this broad heavy spearheads.
Regards,
Martin

3rd June 2005, 02:54 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Nice Old Tuareg Spear? Hi Tim,Freddy and All This nice old spear arrived today! It looks like a late 19th century Tuareg spear? It's in great condition the seller was able to separate the three pieces so no cutting of the shaft took place I popped everything back together and it now has a place of honor in my trophy room. Let me know what you think? Lew Attached Images

3rd June 2005, 09:28 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Hi Lew, very nice spear, may also be Sudanese.This is my all metal Tuareg lance, note the mail penetrating blade.The spikes at the base of the blade have been bent in, shame. I dare not do anything about it.Tim Attached Images

3rd June 2005, 10:41 AM	#4
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Maybe Shilluk or Somali? Attached Images Last edited by Flavio; 3rd June 2005 at 04:34 PM.

6th June 2005, 08:32 PM	#10
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Jim, Lew is right. From the same source some Fulani (north Nigeria - south Niger) guys with tuareg like spears and swords. Attached Images

19th January 2012, 11:54 AM	#12
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	This is an example of a similar spear / lance from my own collection .. I always had it down as Sudanese , but would also welcome opinions . It is 190 cm long , blade inc socket is 50 cm with the greatest blade length being 9 cm . The butt is a flattened almost fish tail shape . Attached Images

3rd June 2005, 10:32 AM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello friends, very beautiful spears! Hello Lew your spear don't seems to me Tuareg. The spear of Tim is tipical Tuareg, yours could be from other region like East Africa or Sudanese like Tim says. Anyway great piece!!

3rd June 2005, 02:37 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Guys Thanks for the input. The reason I thought it was Tuareg is that Artzi has one listed on his website and mine is a dead ringer compared to his. http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=1713 Lew

3rd June 2005, 06:34 PM	#6
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Very nice! Steve

4th June 2005, 06:40 PM	#7
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I think Tim is right. It looks more Sudanese to me, too.

5th June 2005, 11:17 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hello Flavio, Interesting illustrations! Could you please cite the reference? Best regards, Jim

6th June 2005, 04:18 PM	#9
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Jim The photos in question come from African Arms and Armor by Christopher Springs. Lew

7th June 2005, 12:32 AM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Lew and Flavio, Thanks very much guys!! I didn't recognize the photos Best regards, Jim

19th January 2012, 12:36 PM	#13
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I would say yes Sudanese for sure.

19th January 2012, 12:51 PM	#14
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Nice pieces... Nice pieces, I purchased these a little while back. Picture from the sale. Attached Images

19th January 2012, 02:23 PM	#21
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I believe I did Rich, many moons ago now. Great to see you back in the thick of things and those of the fairer sex...best left untouched ;-) there are some very astute members here :-)

20th January 2012, 09:48 AM	#22
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	The shield is Fundj. Excellent condition !!!

20th January 2012, 11:04 AM	#23
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks Martin. I saw Wolf had the same attribution in his reference pages...however I had not seen it anywhere else nor can find anything else about it... Is the broad spear considered to also be Findj?

20th January 2012, 11:29 AM	#24
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Hello Gav, The shield is also in the book "African Shields" by Zirngibl. (I have also one - bought in "army shop" in Prague a few years ago...) I am of the opinion the spear with broad spearhead is old Massai from the 19th century. Allegedly - before the opening of the export of iron rods to East Africa at the beginning of 20th century (used for long slender spearsheads), the Massai used to use this broad heavy spearheads. Regards, Martin