WW2 Hill Tribe Dha

Jim McDougall · 15th June 2010, 08:38 PM

Aiontay, very astutely presented perspective! and well placed.

Good points you make too David. As I have discovered in studying many of the markings on trade blades adopted by Native peoples, the emphasis on these markings by the traders which was intended to suggest quality, became perceived in the sense of power.
This in turn became temporally associated talismanically, such as the paired moons on Saharan and some Sudanese sword blades, the cabalistic markings and in some cases the sickle marks or running wolf.

The tattoo analogy is excellent in describing this characteristic phenomenon. With todays tattoo craze, I am constantly astounded at the 'sheep' syndrome, where if everyone puts a tattoo on thier ankle....the followers must do the same thing. I have seen interesting geometric patterns in some and when I asked the often graffiti laden owner, what it means. The common response.....oh, its tribal. Huh? what tribal, do we have any idea what it is for?
I think sociologically the tattoo syndrome is really fascinating, especially historically, even in somewhat recent times when military forces, esp. sailors got them. After all, the maritime origins were profound. The point is, that the human need to find meaning is found throughout time and regardless of culture.

I remember another case where I was having a marking on a Chinese sword in Manchu script translated, and hoped to find some secretive or talismanic phrase......turned out to say...tempered steel

oh well.

All best regards,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 16th June 2010, 08:02 PM

Some respite here comfortably in the middle. Why is history so boring and distorted at schools? Saya San peasant rebellion.

aiontay · 17th June 2010, 04:09 AM

The Saya San Rebellion brings colonialism, tattoos and swords all togather. And while it was definitely a peasant rebellion, as Martin Smith notes, it did influence the Thakin movement.

Tim Simmons · 17th June 2010, 08:27 AM

Picture of questionable Victorian pose and taste, but gives some idea. On the other hand could be just a very decorative rent boy for want of better words?

aiontay · 17th June 2010, 12:48 PM

Note the caption underneath. Immunity from sword or gunshot wounds. The Karens and Shans have the same beliefs. I know of a pattern that is supposed to confer immunity to sword cuts.

Nathaniel · 17th June 2010, 02:03 PM

Thai have the same as well......some of the markings on the swords or person are for protection/ blessing.

Aiontay, do you have a picture or can draw a picture of the protection tatoo your mention? That would be interesting to see

Is it a Burmese, Shan or Kachin Yant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yantra_tattooing

aiontay · 18th June 2010, 03:26 AM

It is a Karen pattern I was told about by the guy I learned (just a little) Karen sword fighting from. The design is a tiger on one arm and a naga on the other. I forget which arm is which. I need to pull out that video and watch it again. Anyway, it isn't just the pattern, but also what material is used and how it is done. You collect the blood of all sorts of strong, dangerous animals like tigers, pythons, elephants etc, and mix them together; that is your ink. Then you heat the tattooing needle red hot, dip it in the blood mix and then stick it in the skin. I don't know if it would actually stop sword cuts, but anyone willing submit to, and endure the proccess necessary to get that tattoo (and survive the likely infections following) is one tough guy. After enduring that, anything short of nuclear war has got to seem like a picnic.

16th June 2010, 08:02 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	Halfway house Some respite here comfortably in the middle. Why is history so boring and distorted at schools? Saya San peasant rebellion.

17th June 2010, 08:27 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	Burman+Tattoos+Dha Picture of questionable Victorian pose and taste, but gives some idea. On the other hand could be just a very decorative rent boy for want of better words? Attached Images

15th June 2010, 08:38 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Aiontay, very astutely presented perspective! and well placed. Good points you make too David. As I have discovered in studying many of the markings on trade blades adopted by Native peoples, the emphasis on these markings by the traders which was intended to suggest quality, became perceived in the sense of power. This in turn became temporally associated talismanically, such as the paired moons on Saharan and some Sudanese sword blades, the cabalistic markings and in some cases the sickle marks or running wolf. The tattoo analogy is excellent in describing this characteristic phenomenon. With todays tattoo craze, I am constantly astounded at the 'sheep' syndrome, where if everyone puts a tattoo on thier ankle....the followers must do the same thing. I have seen interesting geometric patterns in some and when I asked the often graffiti laden owner, what it means. The common response.....oh, its tribal. Huh? what tribal, do we have any idea what it is for? I think sociologically the tattoo syndrome is really fascinating, especially historically, even in somewhat recent times when military forces, esp. sailors got them. After all, the maritime origins were profound. The point is, that the human need to find meaning is found throughout time and regardless of culture. I remember another case where I was having a marking on a Chinese sword in Manchu script translated, and hoped to find some secretive or talismanic phrase......turned out to say...tempered steel oh well. All best regards, Jim

17th June 2010, 04:09 AM	#3
aiontay Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 88	The Saya San Rebellion brings colonialism, tattoos and swords all togather. And while it was definitely a peasant rebellion, as Martin Smith notes, it did influence the Thakin movement.

17th June 2010, 12:48 PM	#5
aiontay Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 88	Note the caption underneath. Immunity from sword or gunshot wounds. The Karens and Shans have the same beliefs. I know of a pattern that is supposed to confer immunity to sword cuts.

17th June 2010, 02:03 PM	#6
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Thai have the same as well......some of the markings on the swords or person are for protection/ blessing. Aiontay, do you have a picture or can draw a picture of the protection tatoo your mention? That would be interesting to see Is it a Burmese, Shan or Kachin Yant? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yantra_tattooing

18th June 2010, 03:26 AM	#7
aiontay Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 88	It is a Karen pattern I was told about by the guy I learned (just a little) Karen sword fighting from. The design is a tiger on one arm and a naga on the other. I forget which arm is which. I need to pull out that video and watch it again. Anyway, it isn't just the pattern, but also what material is used and how it is done. You collect the blood of all sorts of strong, dangerous animals like tigers, pythons, elephants etc, and mix them together; that is your ink. Then you heat the tattooing needle red hot, dip it in the blood mix and then stick it in the skin. I don't know if it would actually stop sword cuts, but anyone willing submit to, and endure the proccess necessary to get that tattoo (and survive the likely infections following) is one tough guy. After enduring that, anything short of nuclear war has got to seem like a picnic.