Need example of Pamors: Meteor, Luwu, and modern Nickel

Neo · 13th June 2010, 10:53 AM

It's a jaw-dropping learning experience ... I now see that my perception of things has been wayyyyy too simple. I deduce from friends and books that meteoric pamor will have shades of gray and brighter tones instead of a uniform, almost evenly distributed color.

So, based on my novice-level understanding, I was prepared to guess that either A, B, and C are some sort of modern nickel aloy while D and E are possibly natural meteoric ... Prior to your post, I have totally NO IDEA how mild and nickel and iron and nickel will look like when being used as pamor.

I need quite some time just to properly absorb the material you presented in this thread alone ... The last time I met with Pak Haryono he said it would be a good idea to create a graduate study program in kerisology. NOW I understand the need for such idea!! Many many thanks for your information. It's time to turn off the PC and make some calls to improve my network

Marcokeris · 13th June 2010, 03:08 PM

I agree: many many thanks for your information

A. G. Maisey · 14th June 2010, 02:11 AM

OK.

That was the easy stuff :- pamor that I knew exactly what it was.

Now we'll up the ante a little bit.

With the following examples I know exactly what one of these is made from, with the other five I can quote the consensus of opinion that comes from four very experienced people. With these other five there is no certainty, because none of the people involved saw the material being made, there is only an opinion that represents a total of around 200 years total experience in the field of Javanese keris.

Anybody want to name what we have here?

David · 15th June 2010, 01:16 AM

Brilliant thread gentlemen.

kai · 15th June 2010, 07:30 AM

Ok, I'll bite...

All except #3 appear to be mlumah (viewing only a small part of the blade makes pinning down miring-type pamor which looks like mlumah tough).

All except #4 have the typical Jawa surface and without additional hints from the whole blade, I could only guess which is genuinely old and which received treatment to artificially age it... #4 seems to have been extensively reground/repolished with a little bit of prior corrosion still left at places - doesn't look like Alan's work though.

#2-6 all appear to be forged with nickel or high nickel alloys of whatever source. #1 could possibly be phosphorous iron (or low-nickel alloy?) but the many pamor layers make it tough to get a clear picture of the utilized materials.

#3 has interesting pamor material - meteoric from a Javanese perspective? Also the iron utilized looks interesting; and old. (Or does the heavy etching fool me?

Maybe in #1 and #5 the iron got washed more extensively prior to doing the pamor. Or rather mild steel?

All in all, I like #1 and #3 best.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 15th June 2010, 02:50 PM

Let's hear some more opinions, folks!

Thanks for the exercise, Alan!

A. G. Maisey · 15th June 2010, 03:38 PM

Thanks for coming to the party Kai.

I'm not going to hand out the drinks yet, I'd like a few more people through the door first.

13th June 2010, 10:53 AM	#1
Neo Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 59	It's a jaw-dropping learning experience ... I now see that my perception of things has been wayyyyy too simple. I deduce from friends and books that meteoric pamor will have shades of gray and brighter tones instead of a uniform, almost evenly distributed color. So, based on my novice-level understanding, I was prepared to guess that either A, B, and C are some sort of modern nickel aloy while D and E are possibly natural meteoric ... Prior to your post, I have totally NO IDEA how mild and nickel and iron and nickel will look like when being used as pamor. I need quite some time just to properly absorb the material you presented in this thread alone ... The last time I met with Pak Haryono he said it would be a good idea to create a graduate study program in kerisology. NOW I understand the need for such idea!! Many many thanks for your information. It's time to turn off the PC and make some calls to improve my network

13th June 2010, 03:08 PM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	I agree: many many thanks for your information

14th June 2010, 02:11 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	OK. That was the easy stuff :- pamor that I knew exactly what it was. Now we'll up the ante a little bit. With the following examples I know exactly what one of these is made from, with the other five I can quote the consensus of opinion that comes from four very experienced people. With these other five there is no certainty, because none of the people involved saw the material being made, there is only an opinion that represents a total of around 200 years total experience in the field of Javanese keris. Anybody want to name what we have here? Attached Images

15th June 2010, 01:16 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Brilliant thread gentlemen.

15th June 2010, 07:30 AM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Ok, I'll bite... All except #3 appear to be mlumah (viewing only a small part of the blade makes pinning down miring-type pamor which looks like mlumah tough). All except #4 have the typical Jawa surface and without additional hints from the whole blade, I could only guess which is genuinely old and which received treatment to artificially age it... #4 seems to have been extensively reground/repolished with a little bit of prior corrosion still left at places - doesn't look like Alan's work though. #2-6 all appear to be forged with nickel or high nickel alloys of whatever source. #1 could possibly be phosphorous iron (or low-nickel alloy?) but the many pamor layers make it tough to get a clear picture of the utilized materials. #3 has interesting pamor material - meteoric from a Javanese perspective? Also the iron utilized looks interesting; and old. (Or does the heavy etching fool me? Maybe in #1 and #5 the iron got washed more extensively prior to doing the pamor. Or rather mild steel? All in all, I like #1 and #3 best. Regards, Kai Last edited by kai; 15th June 2010 at 02:49 PM.

15th June 2010, 02:50 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Let's hear some more opinions, folks! Thanks for the exercise, Alan!

15th June 2010, 03:38 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Thanks for coming to the party Kai. I'm not going to hand out the drinks yet, I'd like a few more people through the door first.