Hulu origin?

archer · 4th June 2005, 08:18 PM

Help needed to identify this hulu's origins. What is the bird depicted? I believe it is bone, maybe a femur. Thank you for your advice.

Freddy · 4th June 2005, 08:19 PM

I think it's Madurese. Don't know about the bird.

Rick · 4th June 2005, 08:30 PM

A guess , but I think it's a Cockatoo which seems to be an important symbol in thses areas . Yes it's Madurese but I very much doubt that it is human bone .
This Hulu or Ukiran shows what appears to be a lot of age .
Maybe ivory , or can you see pores in the material ?

ariel · 5th June 2005, 01:21 AM

I do not think it is a bone, at least not human femur.
The top part of the handle indeed looks "peppered", and with a lot of imagination one could think it is the inner part of the bone. However, in reality, this part is very porous, with honeycomb appearance and very thin and brittle septae. It would not look solid as this one does and would just crumble with age. Second, just before the "turn", human femur has a protuberance, trochanter major, that is also composed of the honeycomb material. It is not there: the entire surface is solid as a cortical bone.
Is it a non-human bone? This is above my pay grade; ask a veterinarian.

archer · 5th June 2005, 02:36 AM

I wasn't thinking human; but, small animal femur. I think i'm seeing keris from
areas other than Maduran that have similar hulus.

Heres a better shot of the worn area and what appears to be a natural hole.

Ariel, i'll ask a veterinarian, great idea.

nechesh · 5th June 2005, 04:38 AM

It's definitely Maduran and probably bone. I'm going to make a flying leap

, however, and suggest that it might represent a stylized form of the winged horse which is a popular icon on maduran ukirans.

BluErf · 5th June 2005, 05:37 AM

Posting a pic for comparison. Sorry, the hilt was dyed and the bird (kakatua? Not really sure.) is kinda dark.

Henk · 5th June 2005, 09:08 PM

It is 100% a madura ukiran. It looks bone to me either, but I wouldn't be surprised when it is wood. I don't think it is ivory. I've never seen porous ivory.
Maybe a picture of the hole of this ukiran could help to see if it is wood or bone.
Mostly you see the winged horse in the place of this cockatoo. But it is a nicely carved ukiran and so is the one of BluErf.

Henk · 6th June 2005, 08:32 PM

Gentlemen,

I received today the book by Martin Kerner about ukirans.

There he mentioned the bird on the maduran ukiran. It is not a cockatoo but it represents a Phenix. A bird from the chinese mythology that shows the strong conection between Madura and China

Battara · 6th June 2005, 10:02 PM

Could it also be linked to an earlier Hindu motif (Hinduism being an early influence in the islands) like Garuda, the vehicle of Visnu?

archer · 4th October 2005, 12:39 AM

Sorry, to be getting back so late on this thread. Our Veterinarian, was sure this hulu was made from an antler. Sure enough here is a nicely carved Ebay item with the same porous texture on top. It was stated to be antler. Thank you all for your responses and advice

archer · 4th October 2005, 12:42 AM

Always best to hit upload.

4th June 2005, 08:18 PM	#1
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Hulu origin? Help needed to identify this hulu's origins. What is the bird depicted? I believe it is bone, maybe a femur. Thank you for your advice. Attached Images

5th June 2005, 02:36 AM	#5
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Hulu origin ? I wasn't thinking human; but, small animal femur. I think i'm seeing keris from areas other than Maduran that have similar hulus. Heres a better shot of the worn area and what appears to be a natural hole. Ariel, i'll ask a veterinarian, great idea. Attached Images

5th June 2005, 05:37 AM	#7
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Posting a pic for comparison. Sorry, the hilt was dyed and the bird (kakatua? Not really sure.) is kinda dark. Attached Images

4th October 2005, 12:39 AM	#11
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	what is it made from? Sorry, to be getting back so late on this thread. Our Veterinarian, was sure this hulu was made from an antler. Sure enough here is a nicely carved Ebay item with the same porous texture on top. It was stated to be antler. Thank you all for your responses and advice

4th October 2005, 12:42 AM	#12
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Oops! Always best to hit upload.

4th June 2005, 08:19 PM	#2
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I think it's Madurese. Don't know about the bird.

4th June 2005, 08:30 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	A guess , but I think it's a Cockatoo which seems to be an important symbol in thses areas . Yes it's Madurese but I very much doubt that it is human bone . This Hulu or Ukiran shows what appears to be a lot of age . Maybe ivory , or can you see pores in the material ?

5th June 2005, 01:21 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I do not think it is a bone, at least not human femur. The top part of the handle indeed looks "peppered", and with a lot of imagination one could think it is the inner part of the bone. However, in reality, this part is very porous, with honeycomb appearance and very thin and brittle septae. It would not look solid as this one does and would just crumble with age. Second, just before the "turn", human femur has a protuberance, trochanter major, that is also composed of the honeycomb material. It is not there: the entire surface is solid as a cortical bone. Is it a non-human bone? This is above my pay grade; ask a veterinarian.

5th June 2005, 04:38 AM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	It's definitely Maduran and probably bone. I'm going to make a flying leap , however, and suggest that it might represent a stylized form of the winged horse which is a popular icon on maduran ukirans.

5th June 2005, 09:08 PM	#8
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	It is 100% a madura ukiran. It looks bone to me either, but I wouldn't be surprised when it is wood. I don't think it is ivory. I've never seen porous ivory. Maybe a picture of the hole of this ukiran could help to see if it is wood or bone. Mostly you see the winged horse in the place of this cockatoo. But it is a nicely carved ukiran and so is the one of BluErf.

6th June 2005, 08:32 PM	#9
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Gentlemen, I received today the book by Martin Kerner about ukirans. There he mentioned the bird on the maduran ukiran. It is not a cockatoo but it represents a Phenix. A bird from the chinese mythology that shows the strong conection between Madura and China

6th June 2005, 10:02 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	Could it also be linked to an earlier Hindu motif (Hinduism being an early influence in the islands) like Garuda, the vehicle of Visnu?