New edition Gardner's book

David · 1st June 2010, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

I just wanted to point out that they are far from perfect and cannot be taken as cannonical works uncritically.

Thanks Dave, but you are still not being all that specific. And could you possibly name a keris book which is perfect and can be taken as a cannonical work uncritically. I can't think of any.

A. G. Maisey · 1st June 2010, 02:41 AM

Thank you David (Henkel) for clarifying your remarks.

PenangsangII · 2nd June 2010, 05:13 AM

I agree with Dave, Gardner's book is full with inaccuracies, and I thought the publisher would like to reprint the book with some correction/s found after 70 years.

Speaking of inaccuracies and mistakes, I opine that the least mistakes in keris book is still "Keris Jawa: Antara Mistik dan Nalar" though ofcourse there's room for improvement

ganjawulung · 2nd June 2010, 05:54 AM

Inspiring for me, as a javanese, is Garret & Bronwen Solyom, "The World of the Javanese Keris"... The way he prepared to write the book (for the time being, became a "mranggi" in Jogja, and also spent a lot of time with Empu Djeno in his besalen in Jitar, Jogja) is one reason to admire. The other reason, is his "barat" view (viewing keris, objectively with his western eye) is another thing... My one cent opinion, of course... David van Duuren's books, always interesting to me too

Indonesian books? Yes, still "minus malum" if you may say it -- Haryono Guritno's book "Keris Jawa" and not a perfect one, Bambang Harsrinuksmo's Ensiklopedi...

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 2nd June 2010, 08:59 AM

Thank you for your opinion Penangsang.

Perhaps you might like to become a little more specific and tell us exactly what all those errors are?

I agree with, yes there are errors, but just how material are those errors?

Since you can identify these errors so easily, I feel you would be doing the community here a service if you spell out exactly what the errors are.

Thank you for your consideration.

I agree with you totally Pak Ganja, Garrett & Bronwen's book is excellent. For me, it is the only keris book in which I cannot find anything with which I am in disagreement. There may be a few differences of opinion, but in accord with what I have been taught, there is no outright error.

David · 2nd June 2010, 02:07 PM

I have received my Gardner book. I haven't read it yet, but i can report that the illustrations, while hardly stellar, are reproduced fairly well for a book of this price. The photos are not all that clear or telling. The drawings are much clearer, though they are not expertly drawn. Once i have time to read it i will gladly report any obvious errors i find.
I must agree with Alan and Ganja that the Solyom is one of the very best i have encountered and a must have for any keris enthusiast.

PenangsangII · 3rd June 2010, 03:47 AM

"Since you can identify these errors so easily, I feel you would be doing the community here a service if you spell out exactly what the errors are.

Thank you for your consideration."

I think the gravest mistake in Gardner's is his assertion that keris was probably originated in Malaysia (whatever that means) - quite surprising considering "Malaysia" was formed in 1963.

Keris terminology used are often mixed up between Malay and Jawanese.

I can go on and on pointing out mistakes made 70 years ago, but we all know that most of the mistakes were corrected by other writers....

1st June 2010, 02:41 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,058	Thank you David (Henkel) for clarifying your remarks.

2nd June 2010, 05:13 AM	#3
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	I agree with Dave, Gardner's book is full with inaccuracies, and I thought the publisher would like to reprint the book with some correction/s found after 70 years. Speaking of inaccuracies and mistakes, I opine that the least mistakes in keris book is still "Keris Jawa: Antara Mistik dan Nalar" though ofcourse there's room for improvement

2nd June 2010, 05:54 AM	#4
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Inspiring for me, as a javanese, is Garret & Bronwen Solyom, "The World of the Javanese Keris"... The way he prepared to write the book (for the time being, became a "mranggi" in Jogja, and also spent a lot of time with Empu Djeno in his besalen in Jitar, Jogja) is one reason to admire. The other reason, is his "barat" view (viewing keris, objectively with his western eye) is another thing... My one cent opinion, of course... David van Duuren's books, always interesting to me too Indonesian books? Yes, still "minus malum" if you may say it -- Haryono Guritno's book "Keris Jawa" and not a perfect one, Bambang Harsrinuksmo's Ensiklopedi... GANJAWULUNG

2nd June 2010, 08:59 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,058	Thank you for your opinion Penangsang. Perhaps you might like to become a little more specific and tell us exactly what all those errors are? I agree with, yes there are errors, but just how material are those errors? Since you can identify these errors so easily, I feel you would be doing the community here a service if you spell out exactly what the errors are. Thank you for your consideration. I agree with you totally Pak Ganja, Garrett & Bronwen's book is excellent. For me, it is the only keris book in which I cannot find anything with which I am in disagreement. There may be a few differences of opinion, but in accord with what I have been taught, there is no outright error.

2nd June 2010, 02:07 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,237	I have received my Gardner book. I haven't read it yet, but i can report that the illustrations, while hardly stellar, are reproduced fairly well for a book of this price. The photos are not all that clear or telling. The drawings are much clearer, though they are not expertly drawn. Once i have time to read it i will gladly report any obvious errors i find. I must agree with Alan and Ganja that the Solyom is one of the very best i have encountered and a must have for any keris enthusiast.

3rd June 2010, 03:47 AM	#7
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	"Since you can identify these errors so easily, I feel you would be doing the community here a service if you spell out exactly what the errors are. Thank you for your consideration." I think the gravest mistake in Gardner's is his assertion that keris was probably originated in Malaysia (whatever that means) - quite surprising considering "Malaysia" was formed in 1963. Keris terminology used are often mixed up between Malay and Jawanese. I can go on and on pointing out mistakes made 70 years ago, but we all know that most of the mistakes were corrected by other writers....