Preserving wooden kris hilt

Jean · 31st May 2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonng

Hi Guys! Sorry I used an old pic of the hilt. I have taken a quick snap of the 2 cracks on the hilt. How should I proceed?

Hello Jonng,
Nasty cracks, I would do as Marco suggests (filling with dyed wax) or as Alan if you have enough patience! By the way the hilt is very finely carved but does not seem VERY old to me as there is no clear sign of wear to the carved motifs (see my specimens for reference).
I tried olive oil which is excellent for nourishing the wood as mentioned by Alan but... it stinks after drying may be unless you rub and rub again.
Best regards
Jean

jonng · 31st May 2010, 10:53 AM

Thank you all for your kind advice. No luck buying raw linseed oil so far. I have oiled it with olive oil and almond oil. Olive oil disappears in minutes. Almond oil stays longer. Some chatoyancy is appearing around the beak/ nose, eyes and "fang" which is nice.
How old the hilt is? I'm not sure. It certainly is not a new one. I have added a few more shots. Maybe forum members would like to have a go at it's age.

jonng · 31st May 2010, 11:06 AM

This one is from the Asian Civilisation Museum. Wood seems similar, but not elaborately carved, to show off the nice chatoyancy. Dated late 19th century if I remember correctly.

Sajen · 31st May 2010, 05:10 PM

Your hilt under discussion seems to be from a hard wood while the hilts from Jean are from more soft wood. So the missing signs of wear are in my opinion not a clear indication of the age from the hilt.

I would try the advice from Alan but you need patience. When this don't help you still have the option to fill the cracks with wax.

DAHenkel · 1st June 2010, 12:22 AM

I'm not a conservator but I work with them and there's a reason why the root of their profession is the same as that of the word conservative

9 times out of 10 a conservator will tell you to do nothing (or at least not very much) at all. Unless the crack is actively spreading the best and safest approach is non-intervention or minimal intervention. A little pledge to polish up won't hurt either way, but as soon as you start soaking things in oil you throw things out of whack and you could make things worse.

If the crack is active though and spreading you might consider some if the remedys suggested but go slow and observe carefully.

Sometimes the conservators drive us crazy but they're usually right.

A. G. Maisey · 1st June 2010, 02:35 AM

David, I'm the only one here who has mentioned soaking in oil, so I guess your remarks are directed at me, or, if not at me, at least at my remarks.

The objectives of conservation are different to the objectives of restoration.

In conservation we attempt to freeze a material object in time, that is, we attempt to prevent it from deteriorating any further than it already has, and present a picture of the object at a particular point in time.

In restoration we attempt to return the object to a state which approaches its condition prior to deterioration commencing.

The objectives of these two different philosophies are also different:-

in conservation we attempt to hold the object as close as possible to its original state in order to permit its study;

in restoration we attempt to return the object to its original state, in order to appreciate it as it was , and in many cases to continue to use it.

Sometimes I adopt the view of a conservator, sometimes I adopt the view of a restorator, it all depends upon the object concerned.

A conservator working in a modern museum environment usually has facilities at his command that are not available to a private collector or student. For instance, in the basement storage rooms of the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney, temperature and humidity are controlled, and the stored objects are laid out on glass and perspex surfaces.

This approach is seldom available to a private collector.

Apart from which, many, if not most collectors of weaponry and ethnographic artifacts want those artifacts and weaponry presented in a slightly different way than is held to be the benchmark for museum presentation.

These collectors usually favour restoration over conservation.

Further, within keris culture the dominant ethic is one of continual restoration.

When we consider the use of an oil soak to tighten up grain in wood, or to bring a dry, cracked old piece of horn back to an acceptable condition, we are not conserving, we are restoring.

As with any craft, a degree of knowledge and understanding is necessary to use the techniques of oil soaking effectively. I doubt that I am able to transfer in print the product of my +50 years experience in the use of the various techniques of restoration and conservation, but I can provide very basic pointers and those with an interest can begin the process of educating themselves.

My family background is that of four generations of fine art cabinet makers. Much of the work of a fine art cabinet maker is restoration. I am not a cabinet maker, but I have had some training in the trade. Additionally, I have worked with conservators employed by two museums in Sydney, and have trained several people in these museums in some aspects of conservation and restoration.

Paul Duffy · 3rd June 2010, 01:47 PM

I've followed the comments on repair and conservation with great interest.For wood,and sometimes metal[eg old arms & armour],I use Renaissance Wax Polish.This was originally formulated in the British Museum research laboratories in the 1950s.The Museum found that all commercial waxes based on the usual natural waxes contained acids which,in time,could spoil original finishes on historic collections of furniture.
This wax has a crystalline structure much finer than totally natural waxes,it confers a highly efficient moisture resistance.
I've used it on old pistol and rifle stocks,and keris hilts & sheaths.And gun barrels.
The wax is Ph neutral and should not damage even sensitive materials.
I've also used it on 18&19th century sword blades,but not on keris blades only because of the rougher finish of the keris blades.
I live near the sea,so my collection is susceptible to salty sea spray,and the wood to moisture and dry heat,and mould.
Has any one else tryed this wax?

31st May 2010, 10:53 AM	#2
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Thank you all for your kind advice. No luck buying raw linseed oil so far. I have oiled it with olive oil and almond oil. Olive oil disappears in minutes. Almond oil stays longer. Some chatoyancy is appearing around the beak/ nose, eyes and "fang" which is nice. How old the hilt is? I'm not sure. It certainly is not a new one. I have added a few more shots. Maybe forum members would like to have a go at it's age. Attached Images

31st May 2010, 11:06 AM	#3
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	This one is from the Asian Civilisation Museum. Wood seems similar, but not elaborately carved, to show off the nice chatoyancy. Dated late 19th century if I remember correctly. Attached Images

3rd June 2010, 01:47 PM	#7
Paul Duffy Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 31	preserving wood I've followed the comments on repair and conservation with great interest.For wood,and sometimes metal[eg old arms & armour],I use Renaissance Wax Polish.This was originally formulated in the British Museum research laboratories in the 1950s.The Museum found that all commercial waxes based on the usual natural waxes contained acids which,in time,could spoil original finishes on historic collections of furniture. This wax has a crystalline structure much finer than totally natural waxes,it confers a highly efficient moisture resistance. I've used it on old pistol and rifle stocks,and keris hilts & sheaths.And gun barrels. The wax is Ph neutral and should not damage even sensitive materials. I've also used it on 18&19th century sword blades,but not on keris blades only because of the rougher finish of the keris blades. I live near the sea,so my collection is susceptible to salty sea spray,and the wood to moisture and dry heat,and mould. Has any one else tryed this wax?

31st May 2010, 05:10 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	Your hilt under discussion seems to be from a hard wood while the hilts from Jean are from more soft wood. So the missing signs of wear are in my opinion not a clear indication of the age from the hilt. I would try the advice from Alan but you need patience. When this don't help you still have the option to fill the cracks with wax.

1st June 2010, 12:22 AM	#5
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	I'm not a conservator but I work with them and there's a reason why the root of their profession is the same as that of the word conservative 9 times out of 10 a conservator will tell you to do nothing (or at least not very much) at all. Unless the crack is actively spreading the best and safest approach is non-intervention or minimal intervention. A little pledge to polish up won't hurt either way, but as soon as you start soaking things in oil you throw things out of whack and you could make things worse. If the crack is active though and spreading you might consider some if the remedys suggested but go slow and observe carefully. Sometimes the conservators drive us crazy but they're usually right.

1st June 2010, 02:35 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	David, I'm the only one here who has mentioned soaking in oil, so I guess your remarks are directed at me, or, if not at me, at least at my remarks. The objectives of conservation are different to the objectives of restoration. In conservation we attempt to freeze a material object in time, that is, we attempt to prevent it from deteriorating any further than it already has, and present a picture of the object at a particular point in time. In restoration we attempt to return the object to a state which approaches its condition prior to deterioration commencing. The objectives of these two different philosophies are also different:- in conservation we attempt to hold the object as close as possible to its original state in order to permit its study; in restoration we attempt to return the object to its original state, in order to appreciate it as it was , and in many cases to continue to use it. Sometimes I adopt the view of a conservator, sometimes I adopt the view of a restorator, it all depends upon the object concerned. A conservator working in a modern museum environment usually has facilities at his command that are not available to a private collector or student. For instance, in the basement storage rooms of the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney, temperature and humidity are controlled, and the stored objects are laid out on glass and perspex surfaces. This approach is seldom available to a private collector. Apart from which, many, if not most collectors of weaponry and ethnographic artifacts want those artifacts and weaponry presented in a slightly different way than is held to be the benchmark for museum presentation. These collectors usually favour restoration over conservation. Further, within keris culture the dominant ethic is one of continual restoration. When we consider the use of an oil soak to tighten up grain in wood, or to bring a dry, cracked old piece of horn back to an acceptable condition, we are not conserving, we are restoring. As with any craft, a degree of knowledge and understanding is necessary to use the techniques of oil soaking effectively. I doubt that I am able to transfer in print the product of my +50 years experience in the use of the various techniques of restoration and conservation, but I can provide very basic pointers and those with an interest can begin the process of educating themselves. My family background is that of four generations of fine art cabinet makers. Much of the work of a fine art cabinet maker is restoration. I am not a cabinet maker, but I have had some training in the trade. Additionally, I have worked with conservators employed by two museums in Sydney, and have trained several people in these museums in some aspects of conservation and restoration.