Allure of the Core

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Battara, that sounds reasonable.

In other places where elaborate manipulated patterns in blade material emerged, those pattern welded blades tended to decrease in number, or to disappear, when better quality material became readily available for weapons.

This was not the case in some areas of Indonesia, where the patterns had a social and talismanic application, rather than a weapon application.

[Rick]

Which brings us to a crux (IMO) .

What are we to make of this ?
This Kris is how old ?

(It has been polished by Philip)

What class ?

Dressed as a combat blade, IMO .

Fancy, or functional ?

Is this pamor as known in the Indonesian/Malay sense ??

[Battara]

I agree that this particular kris is probably earlier and rehilted at a later date by I would think some one or a family who did not have the same means as earlier in their history. Why rehilt?

1. Damage to the original hilt?

2. Need for the family later to sell off the expensive materials and replace with lesser?

In most cases the family would want to keep the blade since it has a spirit of it's own - the dress is of somewhat lesser value spiritually (though not to the same extent as the Indonesians).

These are my thoughts on this piece.

[A. G. Maisey]

Rick, I seem to recall reading somewhere that one of the major indicators of an early blade was its size:- smaller blades, sometimes about the same as a Bali blade size were supposedly older.

As to pamor, this blade looks like it has a steel core.

If this is so, I would certainly be happy in calling the pattern welded outer skin of the blade "pamor".

Even if it did not have a core, I feel that the name "pamor" is still OK, as the word has the idea of "mix" inherent in it, and this material is definitely mixed.

[mross]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Rick, I seem to recall reading somewhere that one of the major indicators of an early blade was its size:- smaller blades, sometimes about the same as a Bali blade size were supposedly older.

As to pamor, this blade looks like it has a steel core.

If this is so, I would certainly be happy in calling the pattern welded outer skin of the blade "pamor".

Even if it did not have a core, I feel that the name "pamor" is still OK, as the word has the idea of "mix" inherent in it, and this material is definitely mixed.

Alan,
Yes, your read correctly. I have several of the archaic style blades. They almost seem like toys they are so small. In fact I have a large budik that is the same size if not a bit bigger then the whole sword, and a keris that comes real close. I believe a real short history is the keris evolving into the archaic style kris, then these became progressively bigger as they evolved into the current weapon we call a kris.

[Rick]

One might posit that the changes occurred during the centuries after the Spanish arrived .

As for that blade, being the guy who can hold it; IMO it's contemporary to the dress .
The blade was varnished .

Alan, why do you think the twists are laid on a plain core ?

I thought the edge was inserted .

I am no metallurgist nor smith I freely admit .

[kai]

Hello Rick,

As for that blade, being the guy who can hold it; IMO it's contemporary to the dress .

I think your kris is turn of the century (or late 19th c.) and would think that the pommel is possibly original (maybe there never was a ferrule or it went missing). Seems like a datu working piece to me - clearly showing status but not too fancy to get in the way...

Obviously, the smith tried to obtain the typical twistcore pattern but the layers appear a bit blurred and distorted; not top-notch craftmanship but certainly better than what almost all of us would be able to accomplish with traditional bladesmith equipment!

Alan, why do you think the twists are laid on a plain core ?

I thought the edge was inserted .

It doesn't make sense to insert an edge for a double-edged blade and even most/many single-edged Indonesian blades seem to be made of 3 sandwiched layers (pamor/steel core/pamor): Usually you can make out the steel core for the edge along the spine, too.

I have yet to see a laminated Moro kris blade which hasn't been done in such a sandwich (San Mai) way; same-o with traditional keris blades (noting the more recent, non-functional exceptions without any steel core).

Regards,
Kai

[mross]

Originally Posted by Battara

I agree that this particular kris is probably earlier and rehilted at a later date by I would think some one or a family who did not have the same means as earlier in their history. Why rehilt?

1. Damage to the original hilt?

2. Need for the family later to sell off the expensive materials and replace with lesser?

In most cases the family would want to keep the blade since it has a spirit of it's own - the dress is of somewhat lesser value spiritually (though not to the same extent as the Indonesians).

These are my thoughts on this piece.

I agree with Jose on this. It would appear to be a re-hilt. But I suspect not very recent. The silver wire weave is beautiful. The piece is top-notch, Rick you been holding out on us? Why I think the hilt job is older. There seems to be a definite scarcity of anyone who can do the weave.