Some more objects from the RDG - kaskara (?) and spears

Jim McDougall · 23rd May 2010, 08:41 PM

Thank you so much for enhancing these images David! It really is amazing, while these to some may look like beaten up, worn old swords....To myself, and anyone who has a passion for the history of North Africa and the ethnography, they are beautiful. The example with the triple fullers of course stands to be one of the earlier of the group. The others, it is hard to be sure as they seem more sheet steel stock with a vestigial central fuller in seeing better views.
Still, I enjoyed the search for an explanation for how 'kaskaras' MIGHT have been captured at Tel el Kebir........there remains of course the profound chance that at least some of these may have been acquired later as was once proposed. My goal was of course to find support for the captioning specified by RDG.

As I have also noted many times through the years, the British troops were quite impressed with the Sudanese warriors, and there was an enormous trend for bringing back souveniers from these campaigns. It has been a well known circumstance that families in much later years who have donated items of military veterans who have passed on to museums, only knew the assumed origins of the items. Often interpolated and anecdotal stories were relayed with the items, or even worsened as the items were handed down through a generation or two.

These resulting errors in captioning in no way take from the intent of memorial to the donors or the veteran, but simply present difficulties in using the items in scholarly study. Therefore correcting any data on captions or descriptions not only enhances the value of the item historically but reinforces the purpose of the museum in preserving that history, and honoring the veterans who collected the items.

An important duty in our upcoming recognition of our traditional Memorial Day, in which many of us recognize all those who serve and who have served militarily, and particularly all who have fallen in war or battle.

RDGAC · 7th June 2010, 11:52 AM

After a lengthy hiatus - caused mostly by a shortage of computers, and by the installation and promotion of our new exhibition covering Op. HERRICK and suchlike - I return, bearing another weapon for your comments. This particular specimen comes from Oman, and is presumably therefore Omani in nature; I would hesitantly suppose it to be a kattara, but that is a very hesitant identification indeed.

Overall length: 39.5in (100cm)
Blade length: 32in (81.3cm)
Scabbard length: 32.85in (81cm)
Breadth of blade (at widest point): 1.5in)

The blade has severe pitting throughout its length and is very thin, so much so that it visible bends if the sword is held at the grip only. From the lines visible along its length, the lack of active rust spots and the thinness of the blade, I would conjecture that this particular weapon was, much to my dismay, ground at some point, probably prior to its presentation to Field Marshal Bagnall in order to present a better appearance. The blade also has a few cracks on its edges, the most severe of which is shown in picture 11. Overall, despite good preservation in the museum, it is in bad shape, and the damage appears irreversible.

katana · 7th June 2010, 12:18 PM

Hi RDGAC,
Kattara it is .....well known to have very 'flexible' blades. High end examples often have silver or silver decorated hilts.

Regards David

RDGAC · 7th June 2010, 12:41 PM

Most interesting David; our grip is wrapped in the same black, leather-ish material as the scabbard, which doesn't have any obvious means of removal. I shall work on getting that off, in a non-destructive manner, so as to have a good look at both.

Regards,
Meredydd Jones

katana · 7th June 2010, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDGAC

Most interesting David; our grip is wrapped in the same black, leather-ish material as the scabbard, which doesn't have any obvious means of removal. I shall work on getting that off, in a non-destructive manner, so as to have a good look at both.

Regards,
Meredydd Jones

Hi Meredydd,
I mentioned the silver used on some hilts because I am surprised that as a presentation 'piece' this sword seems to be lacking.....however perhaps there was a story with this sword that perhaps made it 'special'.

Regards David

Jim McDougall · 7th June 2010, 04:01 PM

As David has noted, this Omani 'kattara' does seem rather simple for a presentation item, but it is certainly a sound example of these broadswords which were a virtual mainstay in the trade realm of Oman. These were worn typically, and well into the 20th century by tribesmen in Oman, but many were dramatically embellished with silver mounts and often outstanding fretwork by ranking individuals and wealthy merchant/traders.

These often entered the African sphere through the Red Sea trade as well as into Africas interior via the Omani Sultanate at Zanzibar. I have often thought that perhaps the guardless, cylindrical hilted swords of Mali with the Manding may have derived from these kattara as they were carried trans Sahara by the caravans. The kattara is noted by Burton as a Zanzibar sword with its profound presence there. It should be noted these often were mounted with European trade blades much as the kaskaras.

RDGAC · 9th June 2010, 10:06 AM

Curiouser and curiouser! As it turns out, I can see no evidence at all of any embellishment on the fittings or scabbard of this sword; indeed, the wood in both cases looks, to me, quite new, and I'd suggest that this is an old blade placed in new mountings prior to presentation. Quite who decided to do this is beyond me, but mine not to reason why... anyway, some pictures. I was unfortunately unwilling to remove the entirety of the black cover on both sword and scabbard, but discovered that in the former case, it was held together merely by glue (which has begun to give up the ghost), and in the latter that a portion of the material is quite loose and can be manipulated to reveal the wood beneath. The only trace of anything even remotely glittery I could find on this piece, in fact, lies at the stubby pommel, and seems to be a thin coating of a shiny metal; perhaps long-tarnished silver. I shall give some of it a careful silver-cleaning treatment and see what comes up, if anything.

7th June 2010, 11:52 AM	#2
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	After a lengthy hiatus - caused mostly by a shortage of computers, and by the installation and promotion of our new exhibition covering Op. HERRICK and suchlike - I return, bearing another weapon for your comments. This particular specimen comes from Oman, and is presumably therefore Omani in nature; I would hesitantly suppose it to be a kattara, but that is a very hesitant identification indeed. Overall length: 39.5in (100cm) Blade length: 32in (81.3cm) Scabbard length: 32.85in (81cm) Breadth of blade (at widest point): 1.5in) The blade has severe pitting throughout its length and is very thin, so much so that it visible bends if the sword is held at the grip only. From the lines visible along its length, the lack of active rust spots and the thinness of the blade, I would conjecture that this particular weapon was, much to my dismay, ground at some point, probably prior to its presentation to Field Marshal Bagnall in order to present a better appearance. The blade also has a few cracks on its edges, the most severe of which is shown in picture 11. Overall, despite good preservation in the museum, it is in bad shape, and the damage appears irreversible. Attached Images

9th June 2010, 10:06 AM	#7
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	Curiouser and curiouser! As it turns out, I can see no evidence at all of any embellishment on the fittings or scabbard of this sword; indeed, the wood in both cases looks, to me, quite new, and I'd suggest that this is an old blade placed in new mountings prior to presentation. Quite who decided to do this is beyond me, but mine not to reason why... anyway, some pictures. I was unfortunately unwilling to remove the entirety of the black cover on both sword and scabbard, but discovered that in the former case, it was held together merely by glue (which has begun to give up the ghost), and in the latter that a portion of the material is quite loose and can be manipulated to reveal the wood beneath. The only trace of anything even remotely glittery I could find on this piece, in fact, lies at the stubby pommel, and seems to be a thin coating of a shiny metal; perhaps long-tarnished silver. I shall give some of it a careful silver-cleaning treatment and see what comes up, if anything. Attached Images

23rd May 2010, 08:41 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Thank you so much for enhancing these images David! It really is amazing, while these to some may look like beaten up, worn old swords....To myself, and anyone who has a passion for the history of North Africa and the ethnography, they are beautiful. The example with the triple fullers of course stands to be one of the earlier of the group. The others, it is hard to be sure as they seem more sheet steel stock with a vestigial central fuller in seeing better views. Still, I enjoyed the search for an explanation for how 'kaskaras' MIGHT have been captured at Tel el Kebir........there remains of course the profound chance that at least some of these may have been acquired later as was once proposed. My goal was of course to find support for the captioning specified by RDG. As I have also noted many times through the years, the British troops were quite impressed with the Sudanese warriors, and there was an enormous trend for bringing back souveniers from these campaigns. It has been a well known circumstance that families in much later years who have donated items of military veterans who have passed on to museums, only knew the assumed origins of the items. Often interpolated and anecdotal stories were relayed with the items, or even worsened as the items were handed down through a generation or two. These resulting errors in captioning in no way take from the intent of memorial to the donors or the veteran, but simply present difficulties in using the items in scholarly study. Therefore correcting any data on captions or descriptions not only enhances the value of the item historically but reinforces the purpose of the museum in preserving that history, and honoring the veterans who collected the items. An important duty in our upcoming recognition of our traditional Memorial Day, in which many of us recognize all those who serve and who have served militarily, and particularly all who have fallen in war or battle.

7th June 2010, 12:18 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi RDGAC, Kattara it is .....well known to have very 'flexible' blades. High end examples often have silver or silver decorated hilts. Regards David

7th June 2010, 12:41 PM	#4
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	Most interesting David; our grip is wrapped in the same black, leather-ish material as the scabbard, which doesn't have any obvious means of removal. I shall work on getting that off, in a non-destructive manner, so as to have a good look at both. Regards, Meredydd Jones

7th June 2010, 04:01 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	As David has noted, this Omani 'kattara' does seem rather simple for a presentation item, but it is certainly a sound example of these broadswords which were a virtual mainstay in the trade realm of Oman. These were worn typically, and well into the 20th century by tribesmen in Oman, but many were dramatically embellished with silver mounts and often outstanding fretwork by ranking individuals and wealthy merchant/traders. These often entered the African sphere through the Red Sea trade as well as into Africas interior via the Omani Sultanate at Zanzibar. I have often thought that perhaps the guardless, cylindrical hilted swords of Mali with the Manding may have derived from these kattara as they were carried trans Sahara by the caravans. The kattara is noted by Burton as a Zanzibar sword with its profound presence there. It should be noted these often were mounted with European trade blades much as the kaskaras.