Some more objects from the RDG - kaskara (?) and spears

[Jim McDougall]

Yes RDG, appreciation is often a scarcely afforded commodity in our times, but nonetheless, we do what we do I think that what always keeps me charged up is the tremendous satisfaction of discovering things and always hoping others will add to the trove. That doesnt happen as much as I would like to see, but there are some out there with the same passion.

Regarding the plight of the records, it seems that is a well known dilemma and so much has been destroyed by war and disaster. One thing I think of as an alternate resource in your case might be the National Army Museum in London. Some years ago, and in quite a number of cases, these folks were wonderfully helpful, and I was truly amazed at the volume of material they have compiled. While official records from one source may have been lost, the donations from private individuals seem to have often ended up here rather than the specialized museums.

Once cleaned and stabilized, and along with some photos and display graphics, I think these will offer a great representation of this event in the units history.

It is pretty hard to make out much from these images, and I am not computer savvy enough to use all the cropping, brightening features, but this too looks like the very much standard kaskara of the period. The drawing you added seems to stall each time I try to display it, and it would be great to determine more on the blade if I could see it.

[katana]

Hi Jim and RDG ,
thank you both for your comments. RDG the marking on the 'latest' Kaskara is mentioned in this thread...

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...danese+marking

Kind Regards David

[RDGAC]

David, absolutely bang on! The one thing that's different is that I'm quite positive (from home) that the diagonal lines run in the perpendicular fashion on our example. If it is a Mahdist symbol, then that dates it very precisely, but... it doesn't mean it's connected to the rest of these blades! For some while - certainly since I have been here, i.e. since November - this blade has lain in our Uniform Store (which is in chaos), in what I can only describe, with the greatest regret, as a disorganised heap of swords, for we have neither a sword rack nor anywhere to put one. This heap, fortunately, contains mostly relatively common British weapons, and doesn't seem to be doing them any harm, since most are in their scabbards.

It could thus be that our other examples were taken by the 4th D.G., or indeed the 7th D.G., in the course of the 1882 campaign, while this particular weapon was captured in 1884. Dangit!

[David]

RDG, in the future could you actually post your images directly to this forum. They are easy to access now, but next month or next year or so you are bound to take these off imageshack and then this will be a long and interesting discussion that has no illustrations of the weapon in question . If you need help we can tell you how to upload directly.

[RDGAC]

I did try uploading to the forum, but unfortunately found that the forum's file server size limits are rather smaller than the images I'm uploading! Is there any way around that? I know ImageShack and the like are distinctly ephemeral storage means, but without uploading them here being possible I'm not sure where else to go.

Edit: Of course, I could do the intelligent thing, and crop the images so as to eliminate the honking great background area that's irrelevant to the weapon. I'll try that tomorrow and see what I get, as well as working on getting some better pics of that design.

[Jim McDougall]

The link that Katana posted to the thread last year on this emigmatic marking brings up some interesting discussion. Now that I can see the marking, I recall that it did indeed come up in the key resource on takouba blades, Cabot-Briggs. I am inclined to follow the discourse there that suggests that this, as well as numerous versions of markings found on blades are indeed native interpretations of European markings on trade blades from generations before. The dramatic stylization results from not just degeneration through the reproduction process, but from the fact that these 'quality' marks became temporally adopted into local folk religion and talismanic significance.

It would seem that many of the markings and characteristic motif found on blades are essentially cross cultural, and diffused along the trade routes that crisscrossed the Saharan regions into the Sudan. For example, the paired crescent moons that are almost quintessant on takouba blades are also often seen on kaskara blades.

I believe we can be fairly certain that this marking is not a Mahdist symbol or associated in that respect, and while there is distinct astral motif favored on blades in the Sudan, this inscribed device is not representing a comet, but probably a developed symbol from earlier markings as noted.

[RDGAC]

While it's a little disappointing to find that our marking probably has nothing to do with the Mahdist uprising (which'd date the sword very nicely indeed, naturally), the mystery of what the design actually means is equally fascinating. One is inclined to wonder if there is any sort of trade directory for European swordsmiths of, say, the 16th and 17th centuries, which might enable one to discover (with a fair dose of conjecture) which blade-maker's mark was "appropriated" by the locals for use in their swords. Of course, it'd be just my luck if the maker turned out not to have a mark recorded.

Anyway, on we go; next item is what I think is an Omani kattara.

Meredydd Jones,
Assistant Curator RDG

[David]

Originally Posted by RDGAC

I did try uploading to the forum, but unfortunately found that the forum's file server size limits are rather smaller than the images I'm uploading! Is there any way around that? I know ImageShack and the like are distinctly ephemeral storage means, but without uploading them here being possible I'm not sure where else to go.

Edit: Of course, I could do the intelligent thing, and crop the images so as to eliminate the honking great background area that's irrelevant to the weapon. I'll try that tomorrow and see what I get, as well as working on getting some better pics of that design.

Of course it is possible to upload them here, you just need to resize your images. If the software that you crop with doesn't allow you to resize then there are are internet sites that will do it for you. Rick is always recommending one whose url eludes me at the moment. Perhaps he will chime in.
FYI, i usually resize to about 7x10 at 72dpi. This is well within the means of our server to handle. There is really no need for you dpi to be anything higher since most computer screens are only capable of this resolution.

[katana]

I've taken the liberty of uploading a selection of the images....

Below is the first Kaskara in the posting....

Regards David

.

[stephen wood]

Thank you so much for posting these - we now know that this mark, noted by Cabot-Briggs over forty years ago on a takouba not a kaskara, was being used as early as the 1880's.