OLDEST REVOLVER ?

Berkley · 20th May 2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

I could swear i have read that Samuel Colt made his first protoptype in wood, when aboard a ship; it was after this visit to London, then ?!

Fernando

Exactly right:

Matchlock · 20th May 2010, 08:46 PM

Here are two North Italian matchlock revolvers with three revolving barrels of ca. 1530-40, now presereved in the Ducals' Palace Venice and a Munich wheel-lock revolving dart shooting system of ca. 1550! Moreover a bundle of three North Italian revolving matchlock barrels, ca. 1530-40 and preserved in the Ashmolean Mueum Oxford since the late 17th century.

All these and many later systems as posted here have been known to Samuel Colt and at least 'inspired' him!

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 20th May 2010, 08:55 PM

More.

Here now the images of the three barrel arquebus, ca. 1530-40, in the Museum Luigi Marzoli, Brescia.

stephen wood · 26th May 2010, 09:35 PM

...doesn't Elisha Collier appear as a character in one of Mallinson's Hervey novels? - demonstrates the gun on Hampstead Heath

fernando · 26th May 2010, 10:38 PM

Well, this one is not so old ... but not so new, either

.

Philip · 28th May 2010, 05:56 AM

Gentlemen,
Thanks much for posting all those pics of these rare and fascinating guns!

Not all the examples posted so far are true revolvers in the modern sense. What made Sam'l Colt's "invention" so notable, to the point that the essence of its design is still in current use, is that the multiple charges (powder and bullet) were housed in a revolving CYLINDER and were discharged one by one through a single BARREL when the mechanism lined each chamber up with the bore.

Firearms with multiple rotating barrels are a separate class, which culminated and ended with the PEPPERBOX pistols of the first half of the 19th cent. The advantage of the true REVOLVER, with its compact cylinder and single barrel, are obvious to anyone who has hefted each type of pistol of comparable length and caliber. The weight of a pair of p'boxes in belt holsters can pull a guy's pants down if his belt isn't cinched tight enough, and that's not even addressing the issues of aiming and balance.

Of all the guns on this thread so far, Collier's flintlock revolver and the rare Portuguese revolving fowling piece (oh my, where can I get one for my collection?) are the direct mechanical antecedents to Colt's prototype. All the rest are the forebears of the percussion pepperbox.

Matchlock · 30th May 2010, 09:25 PM

Exactly, Philip,

I think we can summarize the 500 years of the development of the revolver from several rotating barrels to the turning cylinder by defining it as a process of shortening the barrels to the length required by the load inside and simultaneously reducing their number to one which is longer than the cylinder.

On this basis, can the 'Apache' revolver which features only the cylinder be called a true revolver?

Best,
Michael

20th May 2010, 08:46 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Revolvers at least as old as 1530-40 !!! Here are two North Italian matchlock revolvers with three revolving barrels of ca. 1530-40, now presereved in the Ducals' Palace Venice and a Munich wheel-lock revolving dart shooting system of ca. 1550! Moreover a bundle of three North Italian revolving matchlock barrels, ca. 1530-40 and preserved in the Ashmolean Mueum Oxford since the late 17th century. All these and many later systems as posted here have been known to Samuel Colt and at least 'inspired' him! Best, Michael Attached Images

20th May 2010, 08:55 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	More. Here now the images of the three barrel arquebus, ca. 1530-40, in the Museum Luigi Marzoli, Brescia. Attached Images

26th May 2010, 10:38 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Well, this one is not so old ... but not so new, either . Attached Images

28th May 2010, 05:56 AM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Revolving barrels vs. revolving cylinder Gentlemen, Thanks much for posting all those pics of these rare and fascinating guns! Not all the examples posted so far are true revolvers in the modern sense. What made Sam'l Colt's "invention" so notable, to the point that the essence of its design is still in current use, is that the multiple charges (powder and bullet) were housed in a revolving CYLINDER and were discharged one by one through a single BARREL when the mechanism lined each chamber up with the bore. Firearms with multiple rotating barrels are a separate class, which culminated and ended with the PEPPERBOX pistols of the first half of the 19th cent. The advantage of the true REVOLVER, with its compact cylinder and single barrel, are obvious to anyone who has hefted each type of pistol of comparable length and caliber. The weight of a pair of p'boxes in belt holsters can pull a guy's pants down if his belt isn't cinched tight enough, and that's not even addressing the issues of aiming and balance. Of all the guns on this thread so far, Collier's flintlock revolver and the rare Portuguese revolving fowling piece (oh my, where can I get one for my collection?) are the direct mechanical antecedents to Colt's prototype. All the rest are the forebears of the percussion pepperbox.

30th May 2010, 09:25 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Exactly, Philip, I think we can summarize the 500 years of the development of the revolver from several rotating barrels to the turning cylinder by defining it as a process of shortening the barrels to the length required by the load inside and simultaneously reducing their number to one which is longer than the cylinder. On this basis, can the 'Apache' revolver which features only the cylinder be called a true revolver? Best, Michael Attached Images

26th May 2010, 09:35 PM	#4
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...doesn't Elisha Collier appear as a character in one of Mallinson's Hervey novels? - demonstrates the gun on Hampstead Heath