mysterious marking on kaskara

Lew · 6th May 2010, 10:23 PM

Jambu
I'm sure this is a German makers mark but I not the one with the reference book still a nice older example.

Jim McDougall · 6th May 2010, 10:53 PM

With the lion mark, it should be noted that with kaskaras, the larger number of blades with European marks or native produced derivatives are from German markings. With the volume of blades exported from Germany into these markets, it seems quite feasible that variations would occur. The lion variation may well have been native applied as well.

Jambu · 7th May 2010, 12:17 AM

I neglected to mention that the sword pictured above has two blade markings, similar to example B. pictured in the above reference. The fly type mark is found in the fuller just above the Languet, opposite side of blade from the Lion Marking.

The seller was an ex US Army Soldier who had been at Kagnew Army base in Asmara and had obtained the sword in the early 70's, no other information available.

Rick · 7th May 2010, 12:31 AM

Maybe if I post this enough times ....

stephen wood · 7th May 2010, 01:37 AM

I was able to find something similar here

When I recently took it to an Arms Fair in London most people who saw it thought it looked older than most kaskaras. It had been said by Christie's to be '1780's or earlier' according to its previous owner.

It may have been shortened at some time but if so this was very long ago.

Also two structural anomalies stand out:

- the pommel is wooden covered with leather rather than the more usual coiled leather strip.

- the blade is not recessed into a slot in the crossguard.

Jambu · 7th May 2010, 02:00 AM

Hi Rick, I also have a Kaskara with this mark, but I have no idea what it signifies.
The sword was purchased by me last year in a village outside Port Sudan. It was a very exciting experience to say the least. I first found a guy selling a sword or two in the market in the Town Centre, but his asking prices were ludicrous. After making some friends and asking around I was advised to travel to a village about 20 min out of town where there is a market operated by the Beja Tribesmen. After looking around at a few camel saddles and other Beja neccessities, I showed some interest in a couple of 'Saif,' I was soon surrounded by 40 or 50 men and boys waving swords in my face

and crowding in all around me, trying to sell of course.
I didn't know much of anything about Kaskara but had researched a little about what would be a good souvenir from Sudan just before I left for Sudan.
Most of the Swords were rather new or if old were in poor shape, but I believe they had better examples that were put away and not for sell. I bargained hard and bought a couple of swords and all sales and cash had to pass through a village headman.
I became very fascinated with these Beja and their Arms and Armour and have done a lot of reading on this website and other sources. I have even bought a few other beja items online since then. I hope to return to Sudan oneday. Sorry I can't offer any serious research, just ancedotes

J Jambu

Rick · 7th May 2010, 02:43 AM

Yep .

Darfur style .
Nice hilting but different fullering considering they share the same style of mark .

http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1967

A European origin has been suggested here but not proven .

*Paging Jim ; here's another .

Jim McDougall · 7th May 2010, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Maybe if I post this enough times ....

Know what you mean Rick! The one I have with the mark is in distinctly Darfur mounts (according to Reed). Im beginning to think this may well be a stylized native version of the Kull mark.

Cuirassier · 24th July 2011, 11:27 AM

Sorry to raise the dead (subject).

I have bought a kaskara with these same marks. It was a punt, outside my normal field of sword interest & knowledge. I have also now (I think) managed to secure / buy a copy of 1000 Blademaker Marks, which also lists these same marks as the one Stephen posted regarding the Sword of Raidera.

I hope I will get my copy of 1000 Blademaker Marks soon (I always fear those dreaded words "Sorry, I have already sold it and forgot to remove my advertisment / the listing").

In the mean time, does anyone have a copy / know the maker, date, details etc? I have posted images below. It is a strange looking beast but I think the kaskara was built that way as the pommel also has the Abyssinian? lion on it. Any information you could share would be appreciated.

Bom dia from Portugal
I actually live opposite the Spanish town of Salvaterra de Mino which is where the Napoleonic French army decided to cut and run (literally) during the Peninsula War discarding, it is alleged, their weapons en mass as they did so. So why are there absolutely no Napoleonic swords to be found here?!
Mark

Cuirassier · 25th July 2011, 08:34 AM

Sorry, I either missed posting the photo of the kaskara or it did not show, so here it is.

7th May 2010, 12:17 AM	#3
Jambu Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Posts: 17	For future reference I neglected to mention that the sword pictured above has two blade markings, similar to example B. pictured in the above reference. The fly type mark is found in the fuller just above the Languet, opposite side of blade from the Lion Marking. The seller was an ex US Army Soldier who had been at Kagnew Army base in Asmara and had obtained the sword in the early 70's, no other information available. Attached Images

7th May 2010, 12:31 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Maybe Maybe if I post this enough times .... Attached Images

7th May 2010, 01:37 AM	#5
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	I was able to find something similar here When I recently took it to an Arms Fair in London most people who saw it thought it looked older than most kaskaras. It had been said by Christie's to be '1780's or earlier' according to its previous owner. It may have been shortened at some time but if so this was very long ago. Also two structural anomalies stand out: - the pommel is wooden covered with leather rather than the more usual coiled leather strip. - the blade is not recessed into a slot in the crossguard. Attached Images

7th May 2010, 02:00 AM	#6
Jambu Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Posts: 17	Rick, I have this mark too Hi Rick, I also have a Kaskara with this mark, but I have no idea what it signifies. The sword was purchased by me last year in a village outside Port Sudan. It was a very exciting experience to say the least. I first found a guy selling a sword or two in the market in the Town Centre, but his asking prices were ludicrous. After making some friends and asking around I was advised to travel to a village about 20 min out of town where there is a market operated by the Beja Tribesmen. After looking around at a few camel saddles and other Beja neccessities, I showed some interest in a couple of 'Saif,' I was soon surrounded by 40 or 50 men and boys waving swords in my face and crowding in all around me, trying to sell of course. I didn't know much of anything about Kaskara but had researched a little about what would be a good souvenir from Sudan just before I left for Sudan. Most of the Swords were rather new or if old were in poor shape, but I believe they had better examples that were put away and not for sell. I bargained hard and bought a couple of swords and all sales and cash had to pass through a village headman. I became very fascinated with these Beja and their Arms and Armour and have done a lot of reading on this website and other sources. I have even bought a few other beja items online since then. I hope to return to Sudan oneday. Sorry I can't offer any serious research, just ancedotes J Jambu Attached Images Last edited by Jambu; 7th May 2010 at 02:50 AM.

24th July 2011, 11:27 AM	#9
Cuirassier Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 5	Subject rekindled? Sorry to raise the dead (subject). I have bought a kaskara with these same marks. It was a punt, outside my normal field of sword interest & knowledge. I have also now (I think) managed to secure / buy a copy of 1000 Blademaker Marks, which also lists these same marks as the one Stephen posted regarding the Sword of Raidera. I hope I will get my copy of 1000 Blademaker Marks soon (I always fear those dreaded words "Sorry, I have already sold it and forgot to remove my advertisment / the listing"). In the mean time, does anyone have a copy / know the maker, date, details etc? I have posted images below. It is a strange looking beast but I think the kaskara was built that way as the pommel also has the Abyssinian? lion on it. Any information you could share would be appreciated. Bom dia from Portugal I actually live opposite the Spanish town of Salvaterra de Mino which is where the Napoleonic French army decided to cut and run (literally) during the Peninsula War discarding, it is alleged, their weapons en mass as they did so. So why are there absolutely no Napoleonic swords to be found here?! Mark Attached Images

6th May 2010, 10:23 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Jambu I'm sure this is a German makers mark but I not the one with the reference book still a nice older example.

6th May 2010, 10:53 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	With the lion mark, it should be noted that with kaskaras, the larger number of blades with European marks or native produced derivatives are from German markings. With the volume of blades exported from Germany into these markets, it seems quite feasible that variations would occur. The lion variation may well have been native applied as well.

7th May 2010, 02:43 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Yep . Darfur style . Nice hilting but different fullering considering they share the same style of mark . http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1967 A European origin has been suggested here but not proven . *Paging Jim ; here's another .

25th July 2011, 08:34 AM	#10
Cuirassier Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 5	Other photo Sorry, I either missed posting the photo of the kaskara or it did not show, so here it is. Attached Images