Comments on the blade of this Moro Kris?

Bill · 3rd June 2005, 05:18 PM

Michael, Could you give us more close ups of the sheath & the hilt? The blade certainly is 19thC & the over all appearance is so pristine, one has to wonder what was original & if anything has been altered; sometimes the problem with doing too nice of a job cleaning, you remove the "age". Michael, what is your impression of the sword & sheath, what appears to you as being receint work? When you look into the wranka (where the sword inserts) does the carving look receint? When you look at the top right corner of the close up you can see the structure of the metal continue past the cut of the fuller line. But the cut line is done so sharply, it looks as to have been done with modern tools. Could some sort of acidic paste been put on the center of this blade, that eat down into the pattern? This sword obviously has been taken apart & cleaned, I suspect the fuller work was done then, etched, edges polished & the hilt re-wraped. The sheath also is in such good condition, is it recient or just so nicely cleaned; no age cracks or signs of wear. The horn tip is unusaul, more like Sumatra work, but then again there is no end to the uniqueness of Moro pieces. If things have been altered on this sword, the person who did them, knew what they were doing.

Lew · 3rd June 2005, 05:33 PM

The horn tip is unusaul, more like Sumatra work, but then again there is no end to the uniqueness of Moro pieces. If things have been altered on this sword, the person who did them, knew what they were doing.[/QUOTE]

I must agree with bill the scabbard looks to be Indonesian in style to me. Could you post a close up of the hilt? This could be an older kris that was reworked at a later date.

Lew

Spunjer · 3rd June 2005, 05:34 PM

beautiful kris!!!
the pamor looks very deliberate; as in what the indonesians does to keris. maybe our keris collector brethrens can shed some light to this...

Federico · 3rd June 2005, 07:41 PM

I have the feeling this is true pamor, and not a wax resist. If you look at the blade tip, there are spots that look like there maybe lamination. My sneaking suspicion is that the center panel may have been restored in Indonesian fashion using arsenic, hence the odd coloration and deepness of the etching. Strong tophographical etch with citric acid, followed by arsenic. However, even without the arsenic, I have seen similar effect/pattern in other kris/budiak/etc...

VVV · 3rd June 2005, 08:51 PM

Thanks all for your comments on this Kris.
I have enclosed 2 additional pictures on the hilt and the wrangka.
It's not as perfect as it looks and I believe the sheath is original or at least quite old.
The hilt has been broken and reglued. And there is minor damages on the sheath from wear. It reminds me of the feeling of well restored antique European furnitures.
I suspect that it has been brought to Europe a long time ago and been kept for display. And somebody restored it very professionally before I got it. Maybe somebody who usually restores European antiques?
The center resembles Balinese pamor, except the topography.

Michael

Rick · 3rd June 2005, 09:00 PM

Michael , could I ask you for a close up shot of the area where the patterning ends near the point ?

Also has anyone else noticed the pronounced taper of the blade , or is that just a trick of the camera ?

I have a Budiak with a topographic center panel but we have all seen that a zillion times already so I won't waste server space by posting it again .

You posted the scabbard and hilt pics while I was writing and I must say that looks like genuine old patina .

VVV · 3rd June 2005, 09:18 PM

Sure Rick,

Unfortunately it's late here now.
This was the best I could do with the light.
Maybe I should try again tomorrow with daylight instead?

Thanks,

Michael

Rick · 3rd June 2005, 10:14 PM

Michael , you're great !
Pictures on demand !

This is no wax resist ; I think that if it were etched (please don't) it would show an added on edge of regular laminate much as my budiak has or this sword :

Lew · 3rd June 2005, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Michael , you're great !
Pictures on demand !

This is no wax resist ; I think that if it were etched (please don't) it would show an added on edge of regular laminate much as my budiak has or this sword :

I stand corrected!

Lew

Bill · 3rd June 2005, 10:21 PM

Thanks for the additional pics. The scabbard does look old & a Sulu look to it. Is the extended piece of the hilt new?, it looks like there is a hole in it for a wooden dowel or screw. The pattern looks genuine, but how was it etched so deeply. seems that something was left on it for days or even weeks to go so deep.

VVV · 3rd June 2005, 10:30 PM

Bill,

The grain on the reglued part of the hilt matches the other.
It looks like it just broke off.
The hole is more like a small dent. Similar to where small stones could be attached.

Thanks,

Michael

3rd June 2005, 08:51 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks all for your comments on this Kris. I have enclosed 2 additional pictures on the hilt and the wrangka. It's not as perfect as it looks and I believe the sheath is original or at least quite old. The hilt has been broken and reglued. And there is minor damages on the sheath from wear. It reminds me of the feeling of well restored antique European furnitures. I suspect that it has been brought to Europe a long time ago and been kept for display. And somebody restored it very professionally before I got it. Maybe somebody who usually restores European antiques? The center resembles Balinese pamor, except the topography. Michael Attached Images

3rd June 2005, 09:18 PM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Sure Rick, Unfortunately it's late here now. This was the best I could do with the light. Maybe I should try again tomorrow with daylight instead? Thanks, Michael Attached Images

3rd June 2005, 10:14 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Michael , you're great ! Pictures on demand ! This is no wax resist ; I think that if it were etched (please don't) it would show an added on edge of regular laminate much as my budiak has or this sword : Attached Images

3rd June 2005, 05:18 PM	#1
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Michael, Could you give us more close ups of the sheath & the hilt? The blade certainly is 19thC & the over all appearance is so pristine, one has to wonder what was original & if anything has been altered; sometimes the problem with doing too nice of a job cleaning, you remove the "age". Michael, what is your impression of the sword & sheath, what appears to you as being receint work? When you look into the wranka (where the sword inserts) does the carving look receint? When you look at the top right corner of the close up you can see the structure of the metal continue past the cut of the fuller line. But the cut line is done so sharply, it looks as to have been done with modern tools. Could some sort of acidic paste been put on the center of this blade, that eat down into the pattern? This sword obviously has been taken apart & cleaned, I suspect the fuller work was done then, etched, edges polished & the hilt re-wraped. The sheath also is in such good condition, is it recient or just so nicely cleaned; no age cracks or signs of wear. The horn tip is unusaul, more like Sumatra work, but then again there is no end to the uniqueness of Moro pieces. If things have been altered on this sword, the person who did them, knew what they were doing.

3rd June 2005, 05:33 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	The horn tip is unusaul, more like Sumatra work, but then again there is no end to the uniqueness of Moro pieces. If things have been altered on this sword, the person who did them, knew what they were doing.[/QUOTE] I must agree with bill the scabbard looks to be Indonesian in style to me. Could you post a close up of the hilt? This could be an older kris that was reworked at a later date. Lew

3rd June 2005, 05:34 PM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	beautiful kris!!! the pamor looks very deliberate; as in what the indonesians does to keris. maybe our keris collector brethrens can shed some light to this...

3rd June 2005, 07:41 PM	#4
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	I have the feeling this is true pamor, and not a wax resist. If you look at the blade tip, there are spots that look like there maybe lamination. My sneaking suspicion is that the center panel may have been restored in Indonesian fashion using arsenic, hence the odd coloration and deepness of the etching. Strong tophographical etch with citric acid, followed by arsenic. However, even without the arsenic, I have seen similar effect/pattern in other kris/budiak/etc...

3rd June 2005, 09:00 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Michael , could I ask you for a close up shot of the area where the patterning ends near the point ? Also has anyone else noticed the pronounced taper of the blade , or is that just a trick of the camera ? I have a Budiak with a topographic center panel but we have all seen that a zillion times already so I won't waste server space by posting it again . You posted the scabbard and hilt pics while I was writing and I must say that looks like genuine old patina .

3rd June 2005, 10:21 PM	#10
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Thanks for the additional pics. The scabbard does look old & a Sulu look to it. Is the extended piece of the hilt new?, it looks like there is a hole in it for a wooden dowel or screw. The pattern looks genuine, but how was it etched so deeply. seems that something was left on it for days or even weeks to go so deep.

3rd June 2005, 10:30 PM	#11
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Bill, The grain on the reglued part of the hilt matches the other. It looks like it just broke off. The hole is more like a small dent. Similar to where small stones could be attached. Thanks, Michael