searching for the right dapur??

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks for pulling me up Pak Ganja.

Yes, of course you're right.

I ran through the numbers in my mind as I wrote that post, but I was running on full automatic, and I did not convert my "tigo" to modern spelling of tiga --- which of course we say the same way. I hear "tiga", it triggers the Indonesian response. I hear "tigo" it triggers the Javanese response.

We can blame keyboards that don't allow that little dot over the "a".

Same with "kembang pala". I hear this as Indonesian, simply because everybody I know says "kembang polo" , and when my wife cooks, she doesn't use pala in the bistik, she uses polo. But if I go into Akar Sari I ask for "pala panjang". Why? Because the shop assistants expect me to use Indonesian, because I'm a bule. My wife asks for nutmeg she asks for polo, and they expect it.

Yep, no doubt about it:- too complicated altogether. How is it possible to explain all this to people who haven't been up close and personal to Javanese people and language usage?

And this is the simple stuff.

What about when people start playing words games and turning "keris" into "keferis" & etc & etc.

One more reason why I'm prepared to accept just about any description, as long as I understand it.

[Moshah]

Sorry for abruptly interrupt your discussions, pak gonjo & pak alan...

I just want to know what is the thing with turtle shell? Is it a common stuff for decoration, like using whale ivory for a hilt, or are there some other meaning to it?

I don't happen to hear this so often, at least not in my country...

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Moshah

I just want to know what is the thing with turtle shell? Is it a common stuff for decoration, like using whale ivory for a hilt, or are there some other meaning to it?

I don't happen to hear this so often, at least not in my country...

Yes, it was in the past, before javanese people knew plastic thing. I remember, my late grand mother in Kusumayudan (traditional residence -- now a hotel, Prince Kusumayudan or Kusuma Sahid Prince Hotel in Solo) used to wear hair bun or chignon made of real turtle shell. It was used for keris ornaments too, usually for decorating the gap of "blewahan" pendhok. Practical intention, only. No certain spiritual or intangible meaning of it, IMHO...

GANJAWULUNG

[Moshah]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Yes, it was in the past, before javanese people knew plastic thing. I remember, my late grand mother in Kusumayudan (traditional residence -- now a hotel, Prince Kusumayudan or Kusuma Sahid Prince Hotel in Solo) used to wear hair bun or chignon made of real turtle shell. It was used for keris ornaments too, usually for decorating the gap of "blewahan" pendhok. Practical intention, only. No certain spiritual or intangible meaning of it, IMHO...

GANJAWULUNG

Thanks for the explanation.

I ought to suspect it is somewhat serve the same function as ivory on keris, but I compelled to ask because I see turtle shell usage is less often than ivory, in keris busana.

[ganjawulung]

Yes Moshah,
Less usage than ivory. In the old days, in decoration assesories some times we found bracelet, ring and neclace made of turtle shell... Even guitar picker

GANJAWULUNG

[David]

Originally Posted by Moshah

I just want to know what is the thing with turtle shell? Is it a common stuff for decoration, like using whale ivory for a hilt, or are there some other meaning to it?

Yes, as Ganja has mentioned it is a decorative material often used just as it is on your keris. I consider it a higher end material when on sheaths, not to the extent of ivory though, but nice. Just as ivory and horn don't seem to hold any particular spiritual significance in this usage i also don't think turtle shell is anything but decorative.