Interesting big sized javanese keris

[A. G. Maisey]

I believe the people who are taking part in this conversation are aware that I deal, ie, I buy and sell keris.

I also have very extensive experience and many contacts in the dealer network in Indonesia, that stretch back over 40 years.

Perhaps it might be as well to note that a dealer will often discover that the name of something is what a number of his buyers would like it to be.

Never forget:- the customer is always right.

And this applies doubly in Indonesia.

Many dealers, especially Indonesian dealers, are extremely knowledgeable, but that does not mean that what they tell their customers is necessarily what they themselves know, or believe, to be accurate.

In Jawa you simply do not find a lot of big kemuning trees, thus it is not regarded as a wrongko wood, but rather as a wood for jejeran. Outside Jawa in the Peninsula, and probably Kalimantan, it seems there are more big kemuning trees, so it is used for wrongkos, because sometimes you do get nginden (chatoyant) grain in kemuning.

Another quite common wood that is used in Jawa for wrongkos, and has distinct similarities to kemuning is akasia.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I believe the people who are taking part in this conversation are aware that I deal, ie, I buy and sell keris.

I also have very extensive experience and many contacts in the dealer network in Indonesia, that stretch back over 40 years.

Perhaps it might be as well to note that a dealer will often discover that the name of something is what a number of his buyers would like it to be.

Never forget:- the customer is always right.

And this applies doubly in Indonesia.

Many dealers, especially Indonesian dealers, are extremely knowledgeable, but that does not mean that what they tell their customers is necessarily what they themselves know, or believe, to be accurate.

In Jawa you simply do not find a lot of big kemuning trees, thus it is not regarded as a wrongko wood, but rather as a wood for jejeran. Outside Jawa in the Peninsula, and probably Kalimantan, it seems there are more big kemuning trees, so it is used for wrongkos, because sometimes you do get nginden (chatoyant) grain in kemuning.

Another quite common wood that is used in Jawa for wrongkos, and has distinct similarities to kemuning is akasia.

Yes, without doubt you are right. I am a little bit younger than you, don't have spend so many time in Indonesia and mainly my treasury of words in bahasa indonesia is very bordered and my knowledge of keris is extremely limited but this is something I have learned.

So I take it as fact that when you have a javanese/madurese wrongko with a grain like this it will be mainly from trembalu or one of the other woods you mentioned. And the wrongkos from Peninsula as well Bugis wrongkos most of the time from kemuning. Thank's again for the time you spend by this.

Regards,

Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

I'm not saying that it is not possible for a Javanese wrongko to be from kemuning.

I'm sure some older wrongkos, were from kemuning, but I have never seen or handled one that people who know more than I do identified as kemuning. Over the years I have known three or four tukang wrongko very well, and a couple of tukang jejeran very well. The tukang jejeran would not infrequently mention kemuning, the tukang wrongko never did.

Kemuning is a light coloured yellowish wood. If it is dark, it has been stained, If a wood that is darkish and has the appearance of kemuning has not been stained, it is not kemuning.

There is a type of kemuning that is called "red kemuning" (kemuning bang), but its only reddish when it is freshly cut, when it dries its just as pale as any other kemuning.

Kemuning that has a nginden grain is very, very difficult to work, the nginden grain is fibrous, and it is exceptionally difficult to get a good polished finish to it, so even if there were to be a piece large enough for a wrongko, the finishing of it to wrongko standard poses a problem.

Kemuning does not look anything like trembalu, and trembalu does not look anything like akasia, even though both usually have a nginden grain.

[sirek]

perhaps you can see the differences in these pictures?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by sirek

perhaps you can see the differences in these pictures?

When both wrongkos unstained, yes!

[David]

Originally Posted by sirek

perhaps you can see the differences in these pictures?

The only thing i can see in photos of this size is a difference in the color of the wood which could very well be stain as much as natural. Perhaps you could repost these much larger and explain what differences you see between them.

[sirek]

These pictures are from the net, and I forgot to mention the source where I have pictures of, maybe the real pictures on the site are clearer:
(to enlarge the photo press the left Ctrl button and tap the + button.
back to normal: ctrl and -button)

http://www.tjokrosuharto.com/catalog...hp/language/en

or you can have a look at this site:
http://blade.japet.com/KRISS/K-Artisans/K-bois.htm

(and the real names):

Kemuning -(Murraya Paniculata)
Trembalo - (Cassia Glauca)

[Gustav]

I just think, we should take earnest what Alan has written about this.

Here an old post about Kemuning in bugis sheath:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Typically, only the root portion of the kemuning trunk is used to make the sheath and the hilt. As the kumuning is more of a very slow-growing bush than a tree, it has to be a hundred or two hundred years old to have a thick enough root portion for the sheath. Hilts can come from smaller bushes.

The kemuning trees that grow in very harsh environment has the most beautiful grains. Sometimes, the root grows over rocky/sandy soil, and the root envelopes sand or rock within itself. Some pieces of kemuning wood thus have sand within the wood that is so compacted that they have literally become sandstone. This hilt could have had that void because of this. Normally, such kemuning are not used, but for some reason, this hilt is made out of such a piece. Perhaps for esoteric reasons - insertion of talisman, etc?.

The way the grain radiates out of the centre top of the sheath seems to be a Sulawesi characteristic. I don't see this sort of "radiation" (hmm... sounds nuclear ) on kemuning sheaths from other regions.