Moro and narcotics

Rick · 24th April 2010, 03:52 AM

I have heard that even a 45 round taken in the hand is enough to spin a man around and knock him down .

I still have to believe that in the case of the Juramentados the pre-applied funeral wrappings helped reduce the damage from exit wounds .
Maybe in some cases the wrappings were of silk .

We are all aware of the strength of silk .

That might reduce the fatal target area to the head or spinal chord .

Dimasalang · 24th April 2010, 07:28 AM

Vaarok, I'd like to know your source where the troops favored the single shot Trapdoor Springfields over the Krags. I have read several reports by the Philippine Constabulary officers whom hated the Springfield 45 rifles and made several long standing attempts and requests for Krag rifles. At the time the Krags were being phased out of the Military for the new Springfield M1903s, and they wanted any type of "repeating" or magazine type rifle. The problems stated with the Springfield obviously being the capability to fire only one shot and extremely long time to reload. Particularly during a bolo rush, that one shot was all they were good for and every encounter turned in to hand to hand combat rendering the rifle useless...all the while being blackpowder(lots of smoke to give away your cover and being inaccurate). The Springfield 45s rifles were old military stock from the Indian Wars prior to the issue of the Krag. And at the beginning of the Philippine American War Springfield 45 rifles were issued to native scouts. They were later reissued to Philippine Constabulary and Philippine Scout units.

But still...even a 30-40 Krag cartridge was not so deadly either.
Another account of a Moro:
...he was finally felled by a .45 slug through both ears... He had "thirty-two" Krag balls through him and was only stopped by the Colt .45 - the thirty-third bullet.

The Tueller Drill is another interesting theory that can be backed up by the results of the Philippines. The Visayas and Mindanao terrain is very different then the open fields of Luzon. Note that the Lodge Committee investigated the lopsided death toll ratio of the Phil-Am war believing a realistic war would be around 5:1(insurgent to American death). Anything more they felt was a massacre and/or atrocities taking place. If I remember right, the committee figured out a 10:1 ratio during the war. I recall one general being asked of one battle where 2 US troops were killed versus the 75 insurgents killed. His answer was the toll was higher then 75 for insurgents because most of their dead and wounded were carried off the battlefield. It is of my own opinion because of the terrain of Luzon and the lack of Filipinos with firearms that led to such a high death toll ratio. These Filipinos armed with nothing more then a bolo ran out in "open" field and were killed in a hail of gun fire. This makes sense as they would be in plain sight for a hundred yards or so. Where as, in Visayas region and parts of Mindanao, the Filipinos and Moros had better coverage. Samar/Leyte for instance is dense underbrush...it is one huge jungle. The enemy could be at arms length before they could hear and react to them.

Battara · 24th April 2010, 06:10 PM

A very good point Dimasalang. More coverage for the mid and southern Philippines. Warriors can get closer to their targets than in the north when attacking. Less reaction time and thus more casualties on the Spanish or US side.

24th April 2010, 03:52 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Velocity I have heard that even a 45 round taken in the hand is enough to spin a man around and knock him down . I still have to believe that in the case of the Juramentados the pre-applied funeral wrappings helped reduce the damage from exit wounds . Maybe in some cases the wrappings were of silk . We are all aware of the strength of silk . That might reduce the fatal target area to the head or spinal chord .

24th April 2010, 07:28 AM	#2
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	Vaarok, I'd like to know your source where the troops favored the single shot Trapdoor Springfields over the Krags. I have read several reports by the Philippine Constabulary officers whom hated the Springfield 45 rifles and made several long standing attempts and requests for Krag rifles. At the time the Krags were being phased out of the Military for the new Springfield M1903s, and they wanted any type of "repeating" or magazine type rifle. The problems stated with the Springfield obviously being the capability to fire only one shot and extremely long time to reload. Particularly during a bolo rush, that one shot was all they were good for and every encounter turned in to hand to hand combat rendering the rifle useless...all the while being blackpowder(lots of smoke to give away your cover and being inaccurate). The Springfield 45s rifles were old military stock from the Indian Wars prior to the issue of the Krag. And at the beginning of the Philippine American War Springfield 45 rifles were issued to native scouts. They were later reissued to Philippine Constabulary and Philippine Scout units. But still...even a 30-40 Krag cartridge was not so deadly either. Another account of a Moro: *...he was finally felled by a .45 slug through both ears... He had "thirty-two" Krag balls through him and was only stopped by the Colt .45 - the thirty-third bullet.* The Tueller Drill is another interesting theory that can be backed up by the results of the Philippines. The Visayas and Mindanao terrain is very different then the open fields of Luzon. Note that the Lodge Committee investigated the lopsided death toll ratio of the Phil-Am war believing a realistic war would be around 5:1(insurgent to American death). Anything more they felt was a massacre and/or atrocities taking place. If I remember right, the committee figured out a 10:1 ratio during the war. I recall one general being asked of one battle where 2 US troops were killed versus the 75 insurgents killed. His answer was the toll was higher then 75 for insurgents because most of their dead and wounded were carried off the battlefield. It is of my own opinion because of the terrain of Luzon and the lack of Filipinos with firearms that led to such a high death toll ratio. These Filipinos armed with nothing more then a bolo ran out in "open" field and were killed in a hail of gun fire. This makes sense as they would be in plain sight for a hundred yards or so. Where as, in Visayas region and parts of Mindanao, the Filipinos and Moros had better coverage. Samar/Leyte for instance is dense underbrush...it is one huge jungle. The enemy could be at arms length before they could hear and react to them.

24th April 2010, 06:10 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	A very good point Dimasalang. More coverage for the mid and southern Philippines. Warriors can get closer to their targets than in the north when attacking. Less reaction time and thus more casualties on the Spanish or US side.