Keris and Rembrandt

Rick · 15th April 2010, 05:18 PM

Okay, this begs the question ;

In the blinding of Sampson what does the use of a keris represent ?

In what light was the keris viewed by European culture in that time ?

David · 15th April 2010, 05:35 PM

Good question Rick. It is, after all, the blade that does the "evil" deed of blinding him.
I don't know if this will look any clearer, but i found this better than average version for clarity and blew it up as much as i dared. I am sure that the original color is off, but hopefully it will clearly show this to be a keris.

ganjawulung · 15th April 2010, 06:04 PM

Was the sheath Banten "sandang walikat"? If yes, then Cirebonese "buta hilt" would match with Bantenese walikat.... Just guessing. For comparison, (picture) is Bantenese warangka but not sandang walikat. Banten warangka, could seem as if symetrical, although the blade inside doesn't need to be symetrical.

Just one cent opinion...

GANJAWULUNG

Gustav · 15th April 2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Was the sheath Banten "sandang walikat"? If yes, then Cirebonese "buta hilt" would match with Bantenese walikat.... Just guessing. For comparison, (picture) is Bantenese warangka but not sandang walikat. Banten warangka, could seem as if symetrical, although the blade inside doesn't need to be symetrical.

Just one cent opinion...

GANJAWULUNG

The sheath on the picture is not sandang walikat (nobody has said that), but an old (probably broken) ladrang form, seen also in old european collections. It is very close to the Banten wrongko you posted, all preserved examples are Gandar Iras.

asomotif · 15th April 2010, 07:54 PM

Here is a picture of his "Kunstcaemer"

At this moment I have no Idea if the items on display are genuinely from rembrandts time...

David · 15th April 2010, 08:49 PM

Hmmm....well i do see a keris on the wall in the middle next to a bust. It would be cool if this stuff actually was his personal affects.

Gustav · 15th April 2010, 09:22 PM

Two days before Rembrandt's death he was visited by genealogist Pieter van Brederode, who has made a record of antiquities and curiosa in his collection. So, despite his very bad financial situation, Rembrandt should have possessed (after many auctions he was forced to make) some objects till death.

There surely will be some information in museum about his estate. The diaries of Pieter van Brederode are also published, 2006. But I think, it's nearly impossible there would be some original objects from Rembrandt's household or collections.

Gustav · 15th April 2010, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Okay, this begs the question ;

In the blinding of Sampson what does the use of a keris represent ?

In what light was the keris viewed by European culture in that time ?

Probably the art keris was used was evident very early to the europeans - there is a report of a man named Henry Middleton from 1605, where a javanese sailor stabs to death with a "cryse" a dutch official, an eye-witness and another javanese, which resembles later reports about running amok or amuk.

I guess, becouse such situations, very quick and probably unexpected use of keris is beying connected with the fierce character of the javanese and bugis (Careri in 1695 says, orang laut draw their "crisis" out of the sheaths for the slightest reason), and has become also character associated with keris.

There is also one european epigraph on a sheath of a keris from Dresden collection, 17.cent., which says: "...brings fortune or misfortune". So some of the "keris mythology" were probably also evident to the europeans.

Interesting are the mentions of figural keris hilts, as depictions of devil (Levinium Hulsius, 1606).

15th April 2010, 05:35 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Good question Rick. It is, after all, the blade that does the "evil" deed of blinding him. I don't know if this will look any clearer, but i found this better than average version for clarity and blew it up as much as i dared. I am sure that the original color is off, but hopefully it will clearly show this to be a keris. Attached Images

15th April 2010, 06:04 PM	#3
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	BANTEN sheath? Was the sheath Banten "sandang walikat"? If yes, then Cirebonese "buta hilt" would match with Bantenese walikat.... Just guessing. For comparison, (picture) is Bantenese warangka but not sandang walikat. Banten warangka, could seem as if symetrical, although the blade inside doesn't need to be symetrical. Just one cent opinion... GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

15th April 2010, 07:54 PM	#5
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,228	Here is a picture of his "Kunstcaemer" At this moment I have no Idea if the items on display are genuinely from rembrandts time... Attached Images

15th April 2010, 09:22 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Two days before Rembrandt's death he was visited by genealogist Pieter van Brederode, who has made a record of antiquities and curiosa in his collection. So, despite his very bad financial situation, Rembrandt should have possessed (after many auctions he was forced to make) some objects till death. There surely will be some information in museum about his estate. The diaries of Pieter van Brederode are also published, 2006. But I think, it's nearly impossible there would be some original objects from Rembrandt's household or collections. Last edited by Gustav; 15th April 2010 at 11:03 PM.

15th April 2010, 05:18 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Okay, this begs the question ; In the blinding of Sampson what does the use of a keris represent ? In what light was the keris viewed by European culture in that time ?

15th April 2010, 08:49 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Hmmm....well i do see a keris on the wall in the middle next to a bust. It would be cool if this stuff actually was his personal affects.