Alex Coppel Solingen Sabre

[Ian Knight]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hardly peacetime! We're forgetting the Venezuela Crisis of 1902!

Outside of my zone of interest (and knowledge) I'm afraid.
Ian

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Ian Knight

Outside of my zone of interest (and knowledge) I'm afraid.
Ian

LOL, I'd never even heard of it until I googled German army 1902!


Thanks for all your help mate.
Gene

[Ian Knight]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

LOL, I'd never even heard of it until I googled German army 1902!


Thanks for all your help mate.
Gene

Nice.
You are welcome Gene.

Ian

[Atlantia]

Just found a couple of this actual model being discussed in archives:
ARTILLERY SWORD

[Atlantia]

Hi all,
The sword has now been cleaned up and is looking a lot happier for it.
Here are the stamped markings on it.


And finally this weird little (makers?) stamp on the bottom of the knuckle bow.

[sabertasche]

Hi all, I thought I add my thoughts on this sword and its markings. From the books I have on Imperial German swords it appears that this is a "Dove Head" "Combat" Artillery Sabre.

This was generic pattern of sword issued to many German formations in WW1 and used into the Weimar period (pre-WW2) as well. The markings on the blade indicate Imperial German proofs for the sword pattern 1896 and the date of issue 1902. The Crown L would indicate proofed and accepted for the Bavarian Army.

In Jeff Noll's book, "The Imperial German Regimental Marking" he states "there are three types or styles of numbers or numerals found with Regimental markings. They are large numbers (approx. 3 mm high), small numbers (approx. 2 mm high), and Roman numerals. The large numbers generally identify the organization (regiments) and units (companies). The small numbers identify particular Waffe or weapon. However, some Regimental markings have all the same height numbers." With regards to Gene's sword, with just a "5", this would be the 5th Battery, Uhlan Regiment or 5th ???? in the Weimar era Reichwehere.

The mark which points to post-WW1 usage is the mark on the underside of the guard. This is called a Waffenampt and it's typical of Weimar/3rd Reich weapons. This would indicate that the sword was accepted into the post-WW1 German army. During this time the regimental markings were greatly simplified as the Weimar period Reichweher became the 3rd Reich Wehermact.

The sword was worn on the right side of the horse saddle, attached to a leather holster or frog. A different more ornate sword, possibly of private purchase would have been worn for foot patrol or parade.

There are many books on German swords and I have only a few in my library. I've looked at the following to prepare this post.

Regards,

Greg

Swords of Germany, 1900/1945, John R. Angolia (1988),R.James Bender Publishing. ISBN No. 0-912138-40-8

Collecting the Edged Weapons of Imperial Germany Volume 1, Ltc.(RET.) Thomas M Johnson, Thomas T. Wittmann (1988), Johnson Reference Books, ISBN No. 0-9600906-0-6

The Bayonet, a history of knife and sword bayonets 1850-1970, Anthony Carter, John Walker, (1974), Charles Scribner and Sons, New York,
ISBN0-684-13931-8

The Imperial German Regimental Marking. Jeff Noll (1988), privately published by Jeff Noll, Ventura CA.

[Ian Knight]

Hello Gene,
You've made a great job of restoring your sword. What method did you use?
Ian

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by sabertasche

Hi all, I thought I add my thoughts on this sword and its markings. From the books I have on Imperial German swords it appears that this is a "Dove Head" "Combat" Artillery Sabre.

This was generic pattern of sword issued to many German formations in WW1 and used into the Weimar period (pre-WW2) as well. The markings on the blade indicate Imperial German proofs for the sword pattern 1896 and the date of issue 1902. The Crown L would indicate proofed and accepted for the Bavarian Army.

In Jeff Noll's book, "The Imperial German Regimental Marking" he states "there are three types or styles of numbers or numerals found with Regimental markings. They are large numbers (approx. 3 mm high), small numbers (approx. 2 mm high), and Roman numerals. The large numbers generally identify the organization (regiments) and units (companies). The small numbers identify particular Waffe or weapon. However, some Regimental markings have all the same height numbers." With regards to Gene's sword, with just a "5", this would be the 5th Battery, Uhlan Regiment or 5th ???? in the Weimar era Reichwehere.

The mark which points to post-WW1 usage is the mark on the underside of the guard. This is called a Waffenampt and it's typical of Weimar/3rd Reich weapons. This would indicate that the sword was accepted into the post-WW1 German army. During this time the regimental markings were greatly simplified as the Weimar period Reichweher became the 3rd Reich Wehermact.

The sword was worn on the right side of the horse saddle, attached to a leather holster or frog. A different more ornate sword, possibly of private purchase would have been worn for foot patrol or parade.

There are many books on German swords and I have only a few in my library. I've looked at the following to prepare this post.

Regards,

Greg

Swords of Germany, 1900/1945, John R. Angolia (1988),R.James Bender Publishing. ISBN No. 0-912138-40-8

Collecting the Edged Weapons of Imperial Germany Volume 1, Ltc.(RET.) Thomas M Johnson, Thomas T. Wittmann (1988), Johnson Reference Books, ISBN No. 0-9600906-0-6

The Bayonet, a history of knife and sword bayonets 1850-1970, Anthony Carter, John Walker, (1974), Charles Scribner and Sons, New York,
ISBN0-684-13931-8

The Imperial German Regimental Marking. Jeff Noll (1988), privately published by Jeff Noll, Ventura CA.

Hi Greg,

Firstly let me thank you for your great detective work on my humble sabre.
To be honest I wasn't expecting much from a single letter, so this is quite a bonus
So this was a sword of the Bavarian army (within the Imperial German)?
Would that make it a little more unusual?
The crowned L, is on its won and the marking above the '02' (the 'L' part looks like like another figure is right next to it amost like 'Lf')
So it was issued in 1902 to the Bavarian army?
Would that account for the very limited regimental marking, as the Bavarian army was relatively small?
The '5.' on my sword is a approx 3mm high.
Thats very interesting that the little 'eagle' marking is a post WW1 stamp!

Thanks for all your help.
Great work
Gene