Jambiya

[Michael Blalock]

Is it possible this jambiya handle is agate and not amber? I have read that agate is used in Yemen these days. Amber is very light. When I lived in Yemen in the 60's the good Jambiyas were all Rhino horn but everyone described them as Giraffe horn. The cheap ones were buffalo horn. I never saw a pale handle like the amber handle back them. The really nice rhino handles were translucent but still had an earthy brown color.

[Conogre]

To address two issues, 1) Tom there very deffiniteiy IS a "giraffe horn" and it's very similar to rhinocerous horn in being composed of a compacted hair-like substance as opposed to most other forms of "horn" (I'm more familiar with it on live animals than as weapon hilts) and is reputed to be held in high esteem for the same reason, ie, it swells slightly when wet, making it almost adhere to the hand rather than becomming slippery and hard to hang on to.
As to the yellow color of this hilt, I suspect that it's plastic, having seen several dozen pieces only a couple of years ago that were all imported from Morocco in a single container by an antique dealer here in Florida that appeared nearly identical.......they were of both styles, the one similar to yours and the traditional elongated khoumiya style as well, all with nice, user blades.
Keep in mind that plastic does not necessarily have the same cheap connotation that we in the US commonly associate with it, particularly in regions where humidity, arridness and destructive insects are a factor.....just recently I aquired that Jambiya with the Saudi royal insignia on it with the belt inset with a white plastic immitation patent leather and it was anything but an inferior piece.
Mike

[spiral]

Conogre thats very interesting about the girafe horn as Ive always been someting of a sceptic about it, I presume its a hollow shell of horn that is over the boney skull protrubrences then?

Is it then realy large & thick enough to be carved to the shape of the jambiya handles?

I am still slighty skeptical but would love to have my doubts eliminated.

Can you source any detailed pix of of the sectioned giraffe horn? or something else to help convince me?

This is something I would love to learn more about.

Spiral

[Rick]

If I recall correctly Artzi had some examples used as shamshir scales .
Possibly in the afterglow of victory from winning that stunning kris he will share an example or two ....

[Aurangzeb]

Hi all!

The handle conducts static electricity.I found out in an odd manner,today while my cat was charged with static(don't ask me how?).I rubbed te handle across it's back and shocked myself with the handle after rubbing the cat with it!My cat,Catbert liked it!It is not p0latic I am sure,to heavy and has faults and a piny smell.

bye

[Conogre]

Your last description pretty well sews up this particular piece being amber then, Aurangzeb.
Amber can be confusing because it comes in many different "shades", from almost colorless and nearly as transparent as glass to completley opaque and almost a mustardy brown that looks like solid dried putty.
Most fossilized materials are created as the original substance, bone, shell, scale or even feather is gradually replaced by minerals as a "cast", while amber, as far as I know, is unique in that it's the original substance that is extremely compressed into a super hardness over the millenia.
Tom, giraffe horns are exactly like rhino horns in that there is no bony protruberance from the skull other than a rounded bone "bump" that serves as the anchoring base, with the rest just compressed "hair" that grows into a hard, solid mass that's definitely not hollow .
While the texture IS denser at the very center, it's all the same material and is carvable.....to the best of my knowledge, giraffe horns probably max out at about 8"-10" long and about 3" thick on very old bulls.
Giraffe horn, by the way, is different from that of a rhinocerous in that it culminates in an expanded round knob at the end, while on the rhino, of course, can grow to great lengths and become extremely thin and pointed, deadly when driven by the mass and power of the living animal......I've seen film of them driving it into the heavy body of a Landrover or even hooking it under a fender and visibly lifting the vehicle without the horn itself breaking, a testament to how strong "hair" can be.
To the best of my knowledge, these are the only two living animals with this type of horn, while some extinct relatives had gigantic versions.....one of the brontotheres had a nose horn that exceded living rhinos in length and divided at the apex into two huge rounded masses very much like those of a giraffe, living pile drivers in their time.....now THOSE would have made some hilts!
Mike

[tom hyle]

Thanks, Conogre; good explanation. I suppose it not being technically horn is why it's hard to find as "horn" when reading about giraffes. All horns are, AFAIK, modified/grown-together hair, and I've never been clear on what basis the distinction of "true" horn is drawn; I suspect it involves a naked-eye "hairiness" of appearance; another horn often called compressed hair/not true horn is pronghorn horns, and they are largely hollow with a bone center, not unlike cattle horns.

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Conogre

Your last description pretty well sews up this particular piece being amber then, Aurangzeb.
Amber can be confusing because it comes in many different "shades", from almost colorless and nearly as transparent as glass to completley opaque and almost a mustardy brown that looks like solid dried putty.

Hi Mike and the others forumites
just to confuse a little bit more the situation ...
you have two (2) kind of false amber stone
- "kahraman"; Karaman is a town in south central Turkey
- "faturan" basically made from amber powder mixed with resin, kind of bakelite, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faturan

both are very well know from Turkish, because they are the main producer on 18th or 19th century
you could have advantage to read the explanations of ;
http://www.efosjewelry.com/amber_info.html

jointed pic's to illustrated my comments

à +

Dom

ps/ don't be upset against me
I put a lot of time to understand and know these particular materials,
but now .. I'm acute on this subject,
I suspect that the handle of the jambiya is in "Kaharaman"