Orientation of the grip of this keris

[Jussi M.]

Originally Posted by David

Forgive me Jussi, you seem to have taken some kind of offense from my posting.

Noup, you got that wrong David - no offense what so ever

I am not a native English speaker and sometimes getting the right tone is difficult, especially with such a difficult form of humor as sarcasm. Yes, I am fully aware that Mr. Bates didnt use a keris on the Hitchcock movie but that wasnt the point. The point (pun intended) was that it could of have been a small keris but nuff about that

It seems that this subject is clear now. That is good. Now we know.

Cheers,

J

[A. G. Maisey]

This discussion has begun to turn in a direction that has been previously travelled.

The destination of those previous journeys along this road was not a pleasant one, so I do hope that during this current journey we can all admit the very obvious truth that all men do not walk in the same way, take paces of the same length nor cover ground at the same speed.

I would hope that some of what I may write will encourage others to pursue the sources of knowledge of the keris.

Raffles was in Jawa after 1812 and his History of Java was finished before 1818. In "History" he wrote that the keris in Jawa at that time had assumed the position of the small sword in Europe of fifty years previous. In other words, it was a required part of the dress of a gentleman, and was occasionally used as a weapon.

From other historical writings, for example Thorn "The Conquest of Java", the works of Ricklefs, especially "War, Culture and Economy in Java, 1677-1726", and the Pigeaud's "Java in the Fourteenth Century" we can see that the keris was most definitely a weapon, and not only a weapon for personal use, but a weapon used in the battle field context, and in the context of a hunting arm.

In 19th century Central Jawa, condemned criminals were armed with a keris and matched with tigers .

In 14th century Majapahit, exhibitions of keris play were staged for entertainment.

Again during the Majapahit period, civilians carried the keris and used it at the slightest provocation (Groeneveldt, "Historical notes on Indonesia & Malaya from Chinese Sources).

I once knew a retired British serviceman who had been stabbed in the thigh with a keris by a combatant in Malaya during the 1950's.

The temple carvings of Prambanan

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/Prambanan.html

and Panataran

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/PANATARAN.html

are accepted by authorities in this field of study to represent the style and conditions existing in Jawa at the time they were carved. The stories are Indian, but the carvings on the Javanese candis show Javanese representations. The keris-like daggers shown in these carvings were one of the contributing factors to the origin of the modern keris. They were not keris as we now know the keris, but they shared many similarities with the modern keris. My "Origin" article

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/maisey/index.html

presents more on this subject.

From a simplistic point of view, the keris developed from an overarm stabbing weapon to a weapon used with a rapier grip. This is true, and can be demonstrated by the evidence. However, like the keris itself, its usage has many facets, and those facets do not allow for a line of reasoning in respect of method of usage that restricts the keris to a single grip.

George Cameron Stone, "Glossary" (1934) :- "Prince Pakoet Alam at Djockjakarta showed me the old methods of fencing with a kris. He said that if a man had only one kris with him he held the scabbard in his left hand with the straight part extending along his forearm and guarded with it. If he had two krisses, he took his favourite in his right hand, and the other in his left to guard with. The left-hand kris was held against his forearm with the edge and the point at the top outward. In this position it was not only useful as a guard , but if his opponent tried to catch his arm a slight motion would cut his hand severely."

We are now in the 21st century. We are long way from the time when the keris was used as a daily tool to defend and to attack. Many of us are a long way from the cultural thought patterns that guided the users of keris in those far distant times. What we see as a keris, and the ways in which it was used is a construct that is very often based upon our experience in our own world, that is the world of the 21st century:- a world where previous development has produced order and formality. We see the end product of more than 1000 years of development, both of the keris, and of the ways in which it might have been used. To understand the keris we need to try to understand it in the cultural and historical context in which it was used.

Don Draeger was not an authority on the keris, but he was a respected authority on Asian combat and weapons systems. He is reported as saying something to the effect of:- " At this remove from the time when the keris was used as a weapon, who can state with any authority exactly how it was used in the past?"
Of course, nobody can.
We have a few isolated representations of various grips, we have a few isolated historical reports, but we do not have any detailed writings of old time keris usage. We can construct a general theory on keris usage, we can use logic to provide probabilities, but we cannot state with any certainty that any particular method of use of the keris is "correct".

Consider this:- if the modern keris was invariably used in a rapier grip, why is the base assymetric? Material was scarce, the keris was not an implement for structured fencing, so the assymetry provided only very rare function as a protective device. A much shorter extention of the gonjo would have served perfectly well as a support for the base of the index finger when the keris was used in a rapier thrust.
Form does follow function as David has pointed out.
Try holding a keris, especially one with an upright hilt, in the reverse position, with the ham of the hand supported by the gonjo.
Now look at the temple carvings.

I would suggest that a master of the keris, from the distant past, would not have limited himself to any single grip of his weapon, but would have possessed the virtuosity to adapt the grip to the circumstances.