Tunisian or Libyan berber sword with scabbard

TVV · 24th October 2023, 08:29 PM

Thank you for sharing werecow. The silver casing is certainly nice, but I am more intrigued by the blade - looks well worn and potentially quite old.

werecow · 24th October 2023, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Thank you for sharing werecow. The silver casing is certainly nice, but I am more intrigued by the blade - looks well worn and potentially quite old.

Yeah, it's an interesting blade. I'm quite curious what the scabbard would've looked like, too.

And I also noticed that on this example the pommel is again slightly twisted. Might be a coincidence of course as it's very slight, but still.

G. Mansfield · 21st November 2023, 08:41 PM

I just received this khodmi and I think the seller is referring to examples such as this one. However, this is the first time that I have seen this type of sheath with stitching. The more common type is the dyed red leather over wood sheaths, sometimes with brass fittings. The decorative stitching is very similar in the colorful geometrical shapes and patterns to the baldric on your Berber sword werecow.

-Geoffrey

werecow · 21st November 2023, 10:21 PM

Indeed it is! Nice scabbard, very colorful. Thanks for sharing this example!

G. Mansfield · 22nd November 2023, 05:36 PM

I also acquired the silver Berber sword in discussion. I would like to confirm that the pommel is slightly offset but very tight. One side is more noticeable than the other when looking at it straight on. It seems to be a common occurrence on these swords, and I have seen quite a few with twisted pommels. The blade is also very old, definitely European in origin and 18th century my guess. However, there are no stampings or maker’s mark at least on the blade, the tang has not been checked.

I would like to post more pictures of the two hilt sides as they consist of some interesting iconology. One side, there is a camel under a crescent moon. The reverse, a fish and rooster. A quick google search states that the fish is a protective symbol to ward off the evil eye. The camel is a symbol of wealth and prestige, and the rooster promotes fertility. Can anyone confirm or elaborate on the meaning or symbolism of these motifs?

There are also a few circular stamps on the silver hilt. Though none of these show an entirely clean stamp, I photographed the best preserved one. Could this be a stamp of the maker? City? A seal of the Ottoman regency of Tunis or Tripolitania? I know that it is hard to decipher but any clues could help narrow the mystery. I will try to further look at all the stampings and try to piece the legible parts together.

-Geoffrey

TVV · 28th November 2023, 12:28 AM

Congratulations, this is a really nice sword and it is nice to see it acquired by someone on the forum, and even nicer of you to share detailed pictures. In his book on edged weapons from Morocco and Algeria Eric Claude shows similar stamps on koummayas, which indicate the place of manufacturing. Since they seem to only exist on silver encased daggers, I suspect they also served as hallmarks for silver content.

Yvain · 14th December 2023, 07:34 PM

That's a very interesting thread on those intriguing swords!

To me that stamp definitely looks like a Libyan hallmark, you could try posting it on : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1033...413/?ref=share, there is some very knowledgeable people on North-African jewelry.

21st November 2023, 08:41 PM	#3
G. Mansfield Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Colorado Posts: 91	I just received this khodmi and I think the seller is referring to examples such as this one. However, this is the first time that I have seen this type of sheath with stitching. The more common type is the dyed red leather over wood sheaths, sometimes with brass fittings. The decorative stitching is very similar in the colorful geometrical shapes and patterns to the baldric on your Berber sword werecow. -Geoffrey Attached Images

22nd November 2023, 05:36 PM	#5
G. Mansfield Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Colorado Posts: 91	I also acquired the silver Berber sword in discussion. I would like to confirm that the pommel is slightly offset but very tight. One side is more noticeable than the other when looking at it straight on. It seems to be a common occurrence on these swords, and I have seen quite a few with twisted pommels. The blade is also very old, definitely European in origin and 18th century my guess. However, there are no stampings or maker’s mark at least on the blade, the tang has not been checked. I would like to post more pictures of the two hilt sides as they consist of some interesting iconology. One side, there is a camel under a crescent moon. The reverse, a fish and rooster. A quick google search states that the fish is a protective symbol to ward off the evil eye. The camel is a symbol of wealth and prestige, and the rooster promotes fertility. Can anyone confirm or elaborate on the meaning or symbolism of these motifs? There are also a few circular stamps on the silver hilt. Though none of these show an entirely clean stamp, I photographed the best preserved one. Could this be a stamp of the maker? City? A seal of the Ottoman regency of Tunis or Tripolitania? I know that it is hard to decipher but any clues could help narrow the mystery. I will try to further look at all the stampings and try to piece the legible parts together. -Geoffrey Attached Images

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

24th October 2023, 08:29 PM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Thank you for sharing werecow. The silver casing is certainly nice, but I am more intrigued by the blade - looks well worn and potentially quite old.

21st November 2023, 10:21 PM	#4
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 553	Indeed it is! Nice scabbard, very colorful. Thanks for sharing this example!

28th November 2023, 12:28 AM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Congratulations, this is a really nice sword and it is nice to see it acquired by someone on the forum, and even nicer of you to share detailed pictures. In his book on edged weapons from Morocco and Algeria Eric Claude shows similar stamps on koummayas, which indicate the place of manufacturing. Since they seem to only exist on silver encased daggers, I suspect they also served as hallmarks for silver content.

14th December 2023, 07:34 PM	#7
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 179	That's a very interesting thread on those intriguing swords! To me that stamp definitely looks like a Libyan hallmark, you could try posting it on : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1033...413/?ref=share, there is some very knowledgeable people on North-African jewelry.