At last ... a blunderbuss with a bronze barrel

[Philip]

Originally Posted by corrado26

This safety catch is very interesting and certainly unique in the field of flintlock- or percussion firearns but it is certainly not better than a dog catch behind the cock. Both systems have the same effect - stopping the fall of the cock. A stopper in front of the cock was later in use at the Austrian cavalry pistol M 1862 and at the Hessian cavalry pistol M 1822/46. During the flintlock aera thre was a similar system in use with the shooters carbine 1817 of Württemberg
corrado26

Udo, thanks for posting pics of a similar concept seen on the locks of some military firearms from Germanic states, of which I am much less familiar with than with those of southern Europe. Am I correct in assuming that all the examples in your post also utilize half-cock detents on their tumblers?

It's interesting to speculate why the apparent resurgence of a frontally-acting "brake" or stop at such a late date, at least on a few models of guns, a century or so after the rear-mounted dog catch fell out of general use. What are your ideas on this? If you have personal experience in shooting flint or percussion guns with locks fitted with these external stops, what are your impressions of the functionality and ease-of-use of such devices?

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by Philip

Am I correct in assuming that all the examples in your post also utilize half-cock detents on their tumblers?

It's interesting to speculate why the apparent resurgence of a frontally-acting "brake" or stop at such a late date, at least on a few models of guns, a century or so after the rear-mounted dog catch fell out of general use. What are your ideas on this? If you have personal experience in shooting flint or percussion guns with locks fitted with these external stops, what are your impressions of the functionality and ease-of-use of such devices?

Yes, you are right, they have all a half cock detent on theit tumbler. These safety catches have been nothing than a second safety to prevent self ignition by unexpected movements on horseback

The safety catch at the Hessian and the Austrian pistol have to be activated by hand but fell off by their weight when the cocks were pulled back into the firing position. This devices have been in use only with cavalry arms

[Fernando K]

Fernando, namesake

I do not understand. In post # 1, you can see the foot of the cat at rest, and you can see the pin ready to be mounted on the chock halfway up. Also, it is observed, half covered, the square window in which the firing chock was shown. In post # 15, second photograph, the pin can be seen leaning on its lower curve in a half-high chock (which had remained hidden, covered) and still without being seated in the firing chock, which still remains semi-hidden. So, what is the first little window, the lowest one of all?

A hug

[fernando]

A screw, Fernando ... of a three screws lock .


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[Philip]

Originally Posted by corrado26

The safety catch at the Hessian and the Austrian pistol have to be activated by hand but fell off by their weight when the cocks were pulled back into the firing position.

Thank you, Udo, for alerting me to an interesting point. In looking at your images again I see that these catches have what appear to me a stud to help the fingers engage the device, and they are in general of a sufficient shape and mass which allow gravity to disengage them while the weapon is being fully cocked. So, a semi-automatic safety of sorts -- manual activation, but self-disengagement.

In this important respect they differ from the Portuguese version, which is simply a small pivoting "wing" whose edge engages the foot of the cock. Its design does not appear to utilize gravity to disengage during cocking; on the two examples that I have, which are on good-quality Liège-made Portuguese locks in unused condition, the action of these devices is quite stiff due to tight manufacturing tolerances. If the pivot becomes sufficiently loose through normal use and wear, the brake could conceivably swing away during cocking if the muzzle of the gun were pointed downward during the process, but to me this would be a chancy and clumsy procedure.

(for convenience I attach an image again below)

The design seen on your Hessian and Austrian locks appears to be a lot more sophisticated than either the Portuguese brake or the early dog locks, and I can now understand the rationale behind the revival of the concept, at least for some cavalry weapons.

[Fernando K]

Dear Fernando

Glup.............................................. .........

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Dear Fernando

Glup.............................................. .........

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[rickystl]

Hi Fernando

WOW!! CONGRATULATIONS !! What a wonderful piece. That has to be one of the most interesting blunderbuss I have ever seen. Talk about a hybrid ! LOL
I too have never seen even a typical Spanish miquelet lock - much less a Portuguese lock - with a brass lock plate. You usually only see a brass lock plate on higher end English/other European guns. But the detailed quality of this piece certainly qualifies in that category. The carving and engraving are wonderful.
As you note, the English style butt stock and plate are very unusual for a shoulder arm coming from this Region. Also, as you note, the slight cast-off of the butt stock, usually reserved for longer barrel fowlers/rifles to assist the shooter while pointing/aiming. But I can't imagine the cast-off being an advantage for a blunderbuss. Hmmmm.
Another thing I notice is the trigger itself. While obviously functional, it appears rather plain compared to the rest of the gun.
Anyway, again, congratulations. What a great addition to your collection.

Rick

[rickystl]

External Lock Safeties: The external dog style safety behind the hammer seems to have appeared around the Mid-17th Century - at least on English locks. On locks from that period, it was the only means of a safety as the tumblers on vertical sears had only one firing notch or one slot hole in the case of horizontal sears (ala snaphaunce). By the last quarter of the 17th Century, with the wider use of the true French style flintlock with the second safety notch on the tumbler, these dog style safeties started to disappear. Apparently they were simply considered unnecessary by this time. Although you do occasionally see a specimen from the late 17th to early 18th Century with the dog catch used as a secondary safety. But these show up on sporting/private contract style guns.
However, as Corrado mentions, the use of the dog style catch as a secondary safety persisted well into the percussion era in the Hessian/Austrian/Dutch Regions. I've always thought this curious.
The swivel style safety in front of the hammer seems to be a unique feature to Portuguese style locks. Acts as a secondary safety while engaged, and a hammer stop when disengaged. Actually a clever idea. But it would take an extra movement to disengage while the dog style would automatically disengage when the hammer is pulled back into firing position.
Then, sometime about the end of the first quarter of the 18th Century the external safety re-appeared on some sporting/private contract type guns. This time in the form of a sliding secondary safety. Apparently, this sliding safety was deemed useful enough the the British military included this, and other features in their last flintlock officially produced. The photo shows this exact lock dated 1835, and includes the sliding safety, internal frizzen spring, and semi-waterproof pan. An attempt to include all the latest and best features. However, this period also was the beginning surge into the percussion period. So this very late period flintlock never saw much use. In fact many were never even mounted to guns and quickly became surplus. That is why you can often find these locks available today in pristine mechanical condition like this one.
Anyway, it's interesting these external safeties were in use back and forth for some 200+ years.

Rick

[fernando]

Rick, much obliged for the kind words .
... And, no sir; you don't need an extra movement to disengage the safety device. The hammer 'round' foot is designed in a way that, while having an insertion to hold the safety device in half cock position, is also built in a manner that pushes it off, when you roll it around and up to full cock position.
... If i make myself understood.


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