Talismanic Devices and Imbuements on Islamic Arms

[Jim McDougall]

It is sometimes hard to maintain discourse and perspective with regard to the talismanic condition as often various marks, devices, phrases etc. become regarded as indicators of quality, status and heritage. With this being the case it seems almost necessary at times to include variations and applications which might exceed the specific talismanic denominator.

In the case of the 'cintimani' device of three orbs I previously noted as found in hilt motif on a shamshir, this perhaps may not have been applied in a 'talismanic' sense per se', but more of a commemorative or honorific sense recalling tribal heritage from Tamerlane.

Still, the deeper origins of the symbol from ancient Buddhist and Hindu tradition and dogma carried profound talismanic properties and varying perception and application. This then became associated with Tamerlane, diffusing into various cultures and their material culture.

As people see this marking in materials, weapons, markings etc. many may see the Tamerlane, Turkic perspective.....while many may perceive the deeper religious and talismanic properties of ancient Buddhism and Hinduism. Here are the varied concepts that Ibrahiim refers to, and fascinating as we look into all of them as we evaluate the properties and character involved in these cases.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Compare two designs ..One of Buddhist the other Ottoman form below..The linkage suggests the two are in some way related on the one hand the 8 auspicious Buddhist signs and the wavy line seen in carpets and textiles (here seen on a Koran wallet from the Ottoman style) and from the Cintimani tiger stripe sometimes also explained as the lips of the Buddha...seen on carpets etc as a W shaped cloud pattern...and comparable to the 8 auspicious Buddhist signs...actually on 7 of them below.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

AND I have to include Omani influenced weapons...with dots on blades.

[Victrix]

We discussed four dots marks on swords in an earlier thread. See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=dots . The question whether they could be forge or foundry identification marks, or have religious or superstitious/talismanic functions. If I understand this thread correctly, the three dots seems to be a fairly universal talismanic symbol offering ”protection” and the four dots could be a stronger 360˚ version offering ”protection” viewed from all directions.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Great point !! Yes agreed and above you see the three khanjar blades with the centre blade protected in all directions and both sides of the blade left and right as well as on the reverse; thus stopping evil from entering blade or hilt...In fact hilts sometimes carry the dots separately as well.. extra empowerment seems to be attached when the dots are in gold or brass/copper material..and it seems Islamic script itself a Talisman sometimes gets the three or four dot treatment. (the 5 dot is in fact unrelated as it stands alone as another Talisman altogether and representative of the five fingers or hand of Fatima often linked to the evil eye protective motif..In fact the saying goes "Heres five in your eye" when that Talisman is illustrated) as below.

As seen on this thread other objects get a similar treatment and I wondered if the transition to moons came as a result of this Talisman although so far as I can deduce moons as such were reserved for blades?

[Kubur]

Gentlemens at this stage of the discussion
I would like to share with you one of the most important fact:
a line is made of two points.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Gentlemens at this stage of the discussion
I would like to share with you one of the most important fact:
a line is made of two points.

Are you saying we are getting a bit ”dotty” here??

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
The Shellenbaum of the German Army, the Chapeau Chinois of the Legion Etrangere etc., would appear to be another incarnation of this form of standard.
Regards,
Norman.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Talisman in a Fort!! FORT JABRIN OMAN BUILT FOR THE THIRD DYNASTY YARUBA IN ABOUT 1680. THE MAGIC EYE. A MASSIVE TALISMAN COVERING THE ENTIRE CEILING

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

A quick note on the 3 dot form...and its relative shapes and beliefs.

Reference;
A. NACI ERENs BOOK TURKISH HANDMADE CARPETS PAGE 52.

Notes on the subject of Talisman in rugs and carpets; a popular design using a triangle (and this is very common in Afghanistan) Quote." Another design which was used as much as the Rams Horn was the Muska (Talisman). It is triangular in shape and it must have descended from the triple belief which represented the three gods SKY SUN FIRE of the ancient Turks. In due course it came to represent the three powers of the new religion Islam Creation/ Letting Survive/ Taking away Life One expert indicated that the use of a Talisman together with the triple belief suggests that the Turks in accepting the religion also opened its doors adapting to the full structure of Islamic Talisman and beliefs". Unquote.

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim
Thank you so much for the intriguing example of the 'eye' applied to an entire ceiling! While we are familiar with this device being used on weapons and in other material culture talismanically, it is remarkable to see it in such large scale as in architecture. WHAT AN AMAZING EXAMPLE!

Also thank you for the keen insight into the triangle which of course comprises the three dot configuration and its associated symbolisms in geometric form. In Afghanistan as you note it is well known in textiles in a talismanic sense as described by Sheila Payne ("The Afghan Amulet" 1994).
This is a fascinating account of this use of a symbolic device in this manner.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
The Shellenbaum of the German Army, the Chapeau Chinois of the Legion Etrangere etc., would appear to be another incarnation of this form of standard.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman, EXCELLENT EXAMPLE!!! This would seem the Germanic tribes interpretation of these kinds of standards probably from the Migration Period and thereby from even Roman origins, It seems these were often in the manner if windsocks , temptingly suggesting wind direction for loosing of arrows in addition to the formation centering use.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

AN important Islamic Talisman is the Zulfiqar forked blade configuration often seen on battle banners ~From might and magic
From the Metropolitan Museum. SEE https://www.metmuseum.org/blogs/rumi...arms-and-armor

Quote."What becomes immediately clear in this exhibition is how some motifs designed to avert evil were ubiquitous throughout the Islamic world. For example, each of the exhibition's three geographic sections—Iran, Turkey, and India and Southeast Asia—references Dhu'l Fiqar, a bifurcated sword imbued with miraculous powers that the Prophet Muhammad gave 'Ali, his cousin and son-in-law, in 625 A.D. during the Battle of Uhud. Dhu'l Fiqar prominently adorns a large Ottoman sançak (banner), which is also emblazoned with inscriptions that point to its likely use in a military context."Unquote>

Below; Banner, dated A.H. 1235/A.D. 1819–20. Turkey, probably Istanbul. Islamic. Silk, metal-wrapped thread; lampas, brocaded; H. 115 3/4 in. (294 cm), W. 85 1/2 in. (217.2 cm). The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, Fletcher Fund, 1976 (1976.312)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

As a link to many Talisman in the Islamic World please see

https://metmuseum.org/toah/hd/tali/hd_tali.htm

I think it helps put our work on this thread into perspective...