Small Ottoman (?) knife for ID, Bulgarian shepherd's knife?

[Sajen]

It coming with a similar but bigger one which I have resold, here some auction pictures, maybe it's helpful.

[drac2k]

Very nice knife; the blade profile and the file work remind me of Cretan blades.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by drac2k

Very nice knife; the blade profile and the file work remind me of Cretan blades.

Thank you!

[TVV]

This is not connected to Bulgarian shepherd's knives for sure. To me it is reminiscent of Central Asian knives, such as the Uzbek pichok (you can see some earlier Bukhara examples in the Moser collection, etc. for comparison). This does not mean it is not Ottoman - in fact, it most probably is, but it is an older Central Asian form and not connected to the Balkans.

Teodor

[Sajen]

Thank you very much Teodor!

Regards,
Detlef

[sfenoid13]

I collect these knives and I know it is Ottoman Turkish from the Black Sea region. It belongs to Laz people. Laz people, today considered a minority muslim community in Turkey live along the Black Sea especially Trebizond area and are excellent knive makers, even today. this style was popular at the beginning o fthe century early 1900s until 40s and even 50s. They have somewhet changed in style but they have a dinstinct style and very detailed and quality workmanship and decorations. If you know Laz Yatagans you know what I am talking about . These knives arealso known as "bichak" or "saldirma", you can also search "Karadeniz Saldirma" in google and you will see similar knives. My favorite knife type.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by sfenoid13

I collect these knives and I know it is Ottoman Turkish from the Black Sea region. It belongs to Laz people. Laz people, today considered a minority muslim community in Turkey live along the Black Sea especially Trebizond area and are excellent knive makers, even today. this style was popular at the beginning o fthe century early 1900s until 40s and even 50s. They have somewhet changed in style but they have a dinstinct style and very detailed and quality workmanship and decorations. If you know Laz Yatagans you know what I am talking about . These knives arealso known as "bichak" or "saldirma", you can also search "Karadeniz Saldirma" in google and you will see similar knives. My favorite knife type.

Hello Sfenoid,

thank you very much for pin down the exact origin of this little knife. Sadly my search with your given keywords don't show any similar knives.
Would you be so kind to show some of your examples for comparison? So we would have a reference thread to show this knife type.

Regards,
Detlef

[gp]

Originally Posted by Sajen

It coming with a similar but bigger one which I have resold, here some auction pictures, maybe it's helpful.

going through the link , the picture is indeed helpful; the bigger one has a decoration on the blade which often can be seen on the Bosnian an Serbian knives. In one of the threads on bichaqs I places one or two pics of 3 knives from little to bigger with copper handle and also the octagonal shape...

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...76&postcount=2
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...2&postcount=76

[RobT]

Hi sfenoid13,

I had always thought that this knife was from the Trabzon region. Is it a saldirma?

Sincerely,
RobT

[David R]

I just thought I might as well join in with mine, posted before but on its own thread.

[gp]

very nice knives but we must be careful not to mix 3 differnet types I see in this thread :

1. former Yugoslavia ( Bosnian knives)
2. Surmene knives
3. Laz knives or as they are called in Georgia "Babas Khama"
with some pics of the latter

[RobT]

Hi gp,

Are you saying that the knife I posted is from the "former Yugoslavia ( Bosnian knives)" and the knife that David R posted is from the "Surmene" area?. What about the pictures from sfenoid13 that Sajen posted?

Sincerely,
RobT

[gp]

#5 from Detlef is a Bosnian one…that triggered my attention.

Next I see a few ( very nice) Surmene ones, but also some Laz ones.

And although we recently had an interesting exchange of minds in the forum concerning the Laz yataghans, I recently learned from a professional, who is a specialist on cold weapons from that region, that these Laz daggers shown are actually Georgian ( I compared them with some pics from his collection he showed me).
Being not a specialist on the Caucasian topic, I know not all Laz are Surmene and vise versa. Sorry if my previous post lead to some confusion.

BR

Gunar