The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

[fernando]

Old 4th December 2008, 07:56 PM

Posted by:
Kuba
Member

Join Date: Dec 2008


and next photo:
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[fernando]

Old 5th December 2008, 03:56 PM

Posted by:
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal


Hi Kuba,
Welcome to the Forum.
Before the knowledge people come in, let me speculate a bit .
Visibly a blade cut (or broken), suiting a dagger size. Tang also shortened, basicaly for the same purpose. The wrongly centered hole could have two purposes; either for fixing a dagger handle or simply to use the blade as a wall hanger
Why do you think the signature is not original and this blade was made over a century after that sword smith existed ? Anyway, Tomas de Ayala was one of the most imitated signatures of the period.
Let the experts come by and give a consistent diagnosis.
Fernando
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[fernando]

Old 5th December 2008, 04:57 PM

Posted by:
katana
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent


Hi Kuba,
welcome, the hole in the tang appears to be 'punched' and not drilled....this could be a very good sign of age. Notice the metal is slightly 'raised' on the tang's edge and follows the contour of the hole. If the tang was shortened, I feel it could have been left longer...even for a dagger.
The blade's patina does seem to suggest a good age.

Regards David

(missing attachments)

[fernando]

Old 5th December 2008, 06:40 PM

Posted by:
Kuba
Member

Join Date: Dec 2008


I think that is XVIII century because is signed AYALA
original swords of Toledo have AIALA or AIA and DE TOLEDO

But what it means this St.Clemens cross ?
probably this is a true mark

This 1/4 sword :-) was found at the attic in very old house in Poland ,
in the region Gdańsk / Danzig , maybe come of old German colection ?
destroyed by Red Army in 1945

Sorry for my english :-) I know that Kali ordered an ashtray wine
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[fernando]

Old 6th May 2009, 09:45 PM

Posted by:
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal


I am a bit too lazy to check if these tables were alredy posted here so, just in case, i post them now.
Not much harm if they are already here, somewhere
Fernando
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Attached Images

[fernando]

Old 18th September 2009, 09:58 AM

Posted by:
buendia
Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Silesia, Poland

Who can identify these marks?

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[fernando]

Old 18th September 2009, 03:01 PM

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

Thanks for posting that Buendia! Its nice to see a posting on this trusty old thread
I'm curious about which book this table of markings is from, it is often helpful to know which context these references are in, as well as which language. Does the book make mention of the authors thoughts on the markings?

These are of course markings applied to trade blades, believed to have originated with trade guilds in Northern Italy, they are typically associated with Genoa, and as you can see that name is often used within the marks.
Genoan blades traded heavily to the north in colonial activity in the Black Sea as well as of course throughout the Meditteranean.
The usually dentated half circles are known as 'sickle marks' most often, though referred to my many other terms including eyelashes or even in some cases hogsbacks.
The 'Frindia' or 'Fringia' marks seem to derive from 16th-17th century application, perhaps sometimes later, usually in East European cases and there has been considerable debate on the word(s) which seem to be an acronym or phrase using first letters. It is often seen, as are the 'sickle' marks on Styrian blades, as well as certain other centers. Solingen began copying the marks, though often bracketing other marks inside them, especially the famed ANDREA FERARA, typically seen on blades for the Scottish market.

Thanks again Buendia, its always good to see interest in pursuing these fascinating markings and thier associations and application.

All the best,
Jim
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